Jazz Mandolin Recommendations

[MSGrady20]

I have been thinking that I would like to get into jazz mandolin. Can anyone recommend some good literature that will give me a good beginners look into that style of music? Thanks!

[Pete Martin]

You can check out my site www.Jazz-Mandolin.com. Several instruction articles, videos and free PDF books for all levels of Jazz players.

[UsuallyPickin]

Pete has excellent material. I can also recommend Don Stiernberg and his materials available through Mel Bay. http://www.melbay.com/Products/22021...ppetizers.aspx
Ted Eschliman's Four-Finger Closed Position and Getting into Jazz mandolin are also excellent books....... Luck R/

[crisscross]

If you are able to read standard notation, I highly recommend guitar books by Frank Vignola. His books "Jazz-Solos" have example solos over the changes of well known standards that also work when played on the mandolin. Here is his solo for "Don't get around much anymore" played on my Loar.
The solos in these books are fairly easy, no tritone substitution or advanced scale concepts. http://www.melbay.com/Products/99323...-volume-2.aspx

[crisscross]

Don't want to sound boastful:Forgot the "The". It's an LM-220

[David Lewis]

Another vote for getting into jazz mandolin. But the others are good too.

Www.jazzmando.com

[bigskygirl]

Check out Grisman and other jazz standards like So What, All of Me, Autum Leaves...so many more. Also, check out some western swing tunes.

[Tom Morse]

Invest in a copy of The Real Book: Vol I. Maybe start with Satin Doll. Learn to play minor-seventh, minor-seventh-flat-5, and seventh-flat-9 chords (all three are dead simple on the mando) to start with (the augmented and diminished chords will be important, too). Most important, listen to a lot — a LOT — of jazz: Thelonius Monk, Charlie Parker, Duke Ellington, Louis Banfi, Antonio Jobim, Sonny Rollins, Miles Davis, Art Pepper. Especially spend time listening to guitarists like Joe Pass and Jim Hall, to name just two. And scales. Practice scales. And fun. Have fun. Keep us all posted on your progress.

[crisscross]

It seems to me that when it comes to create your soloing lines, Jazz is less idiomatic than say rock guitar or BG banjo, so you can learn from method books for other C-Instruments as well, for example flute or violin. Or for saxophone, just have to transpose the chords. You'll have to change a note here and there to make it playable on your mando but you'll get the general drift.

You'll find many tunes from the Real Book online http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=h...IVw5UsCh0YAgKi

When you have the melody and the chords down you can steal some licks from the masters:
Wes Montgomery http://www.freejazzlessons.com/wes-m...on-satin-doll/

Kenny Burrel http://de.scribd.com/doc/187823028/S...olo-pdf#scribd

Or Tiny Moore (wich brings us back to the mando) http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...-on-Satin-Doll

[renoyd]

For listening, I would recommend Will Patton's albums. Very nice stuff indeed.

[MSGrady20]

Thanks for guys. Good info on here!

[Steve Sorensen]

www.jazzmando.com ! ! !

[DavidKOS]

Check out Grisman and other jazz standards like So What, All of Me, Autumn Leaves...so many more. Also, check out some western swing tunes.

Or Tiny Moore (wich brings us back to the mando)

For me Tiny Moore is a much better example of a real jazz player than Grisman.

Yes, Grisman is a force of nature in the mandolin world, but I find his playing to have a Bluegrass/old time "accent" not found in Moore's playing - nor in Jethro Burns playing, another great jazz mandolinist. This is somewhat common among mandolin players that come from non-jazz roots.

Growing up in New Orleans, I was exposed to lots of jazz - and not much old time and Bluegrass - since jazz IS our folk music. Part of being a good jazz anything player is to be immersed in the music itself, of all forms of jazz from Dixieland to modern - and no other city in the world can say that jazz is their folk music.

So I suggest lots of listening in addition to direct study of jazz techniques on the mandolin.

[DavidKOS]

Most important, listen to a lot — a LOT — of jazz: Thelonius Monk, Charlie Parker, Duke Ellington, Louis Banfi, Antonio Jobim, Sonny Rollins, Miles Davis, Art Pepper. Especially spend time listening to guitarists like Joe Pass and Jim Hall, to name just two. .

Great advice, except that jazz began a lot earlier than the guys you mentioned and thus you are overlooking both fine earlier players and the idea that to play modern jazz you need to know bop - to play bop you need to know swing - to play swing you need to know Dixieland - and to play any of it you need to know blues.

So don't overlook Louis Armstrong, Sidney Bechet, Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, and Charlie Chrisitan among many other pre-bebop jazzmen.

[August Watters]

Great advice, except that jazz began a lot earlier than the guys you mentioned and thus you are overlooking both fine earlier players . . .So don't overlook Louis Armstrong, Sidney Bechet, Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, and Charlie Chrisitan among many other pre-bebop jazzmen.

Yes. What David said. And to take this to the mandolin world, the early days of the American mandolin coincided with the popularity of pre-jazz styles like ragtime, and you can feel that influence in the works of early American mandolinists. They were mostly gone by the time recording technology was ready for them, so their work is available now only in notation form. Much of this music is highly idiomatic to mandolin, and shows a level of chord-melody playing that's for the most part way beyond today's standards.

It's not necessary to reverse-engineer a jazz concept for mandolin by translating from other instruments. We have our own traditions to build on!

[DavidKOS]

It's not necessary to reverse-engineer a jazz concept for mandolin by translating from other instruments. We have our own traditions to build on!

Just look up that thread that had pictures of old New Orleans string bands - with mandolin players. Certainly they played like all the other New Orleans musicians!

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Yes. What David said. And to take this to the mandolin world, the early days of the American mandolin coincided with the popularity of pre-jazz styles like ragtime, and you can feel that influence in the works of early American mandolinists. They were mostly gone by the time recording technology was ready for them, so their work is available now only in notation form. Much of this music is highly idiomatic to mandolin, and shows a level of chord-melody playing that's for the most part way beyond today's standards.

It's not necessary to reverse-engineer a jazz concept for mandolin by translating from other instruments. We have our own traditions to build on!

Dave Apollon would be one player who made it to film and audio recording from that school of playing if not time period.

Daniel

[DavidKOS]

Dave Apollon would be one player who made it to film and audio recording from that school of playing if not time period.

Daniel

Apollon was a great player, but I can't say I've heard him play jazz; are there any recordings of his jazz style?

[SincereCorgi]

Surely you've seen:

[DavidKOS]

Surely you've seen:

Sweet Sue

Yes...and Apollon is as usual very cool, but if you notice most of the early hot playing is done by the other players like the lap steel player, guitarist, and the bandurria player; Dave seems to have "hot licks" worked out but not exactly improvising like Joe Venuti.

Or some of Jethro Burns , like if you follow the link on the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpU83gGQMGY

This is quite wonderful music - a vaudeville act caught on film I assume - but most "serious" jazz buffs would not put this in the same class as Louis Armstrong.

No put down of Apollon, I love his playing, but I'm not sure I'd call him a jazz mandolinist. Maybe mandolinist of the jazz age perhaps? He certainly did have his chops together.

[Beanzy]

Given the thread title and Dave Apollon's extensive recordings of jazz on mandolin it would seem absurd to try to say he wasn't considered a jazz mandolinist. Off the top of my head I know he's got Dark Eyes, Begin the Beguine, Stardust, Meadowland, St Louis Blues, Tiger Rag. Thankfully not being in the same league as Louis Armstrong is irrelevant to whether someone is considered a jazz player. Given that he gigged with the Duke Ellington orchestra with Django Reinhardt I'd used their criteria when judging whether he was a jazz mandolin player worth recommending.

[SincereCorgi]

This is quite wonderful music - a vaudeville act caught on film I assume - but most "serious" jazz buffs would not put this in the same class as Louis Armstrong.

Yeah, I agree, but it's the closest thing we have to a recording of good 'hot' virtuoso mandolin from that era. I suspect Dave could probably improvise pretty well, but that his vaudeville background probably resulted in a preference for a carefully polished presentation. He kinda reminds me of guys like Roy Smeck- your jaw's on the floor for two numbers, but then halfway through the third you find yourself getting antsy.

[Beanzy]

Spot on with that getting antsy comment. A lot of those in your face ham it up types now just don't engage us but I bet when they're in front of you giving you the eyeball they were able to lure you into their world. There's something intangible that some people have live that doesn't always translate onto film and plenty of examples of the reverse. But there's no doubt we lack a figure who took the mandolin to the Dizzy heights, we need a Bird of our own.

[DavidKOS]

Yeah, I agree, but it's the closest thing we have to a recording of good 'hot' virtuoso mandolin from that era. I suspect Dave could probably improvise pretty well, but that his vaudeville background probably resulted in a preference for a carefully polished presentation. He kinda reminds me of guys like Roy Smeck- your jaw's on the floor for two numbers, but then halfway through the third you find yourself getting antsy.

Spot on with that getting antsy comment. A lot of those in your face ham it up types now just don't engage us but I bet when they're in front of you giving you the eyeball they were able to lure you into their world. There's something intangible that some people have live that doesn't always translate onto film and plenty of examples of the reverse. But there's no doubt we lack a figure who took the mandolin to the Dizzy heights, we need a Bird of our own.

Beanzy has a real point - the movers and shakers in the jazz world have usually been the horn players, mostly trumpet or sax, pianists, and rarely another player.

Perhaps if Charlie Christian had survived bop would have also been a guitar featured style....and as such mandolin has always been a fringe jazz instrument, in spite of many jazz mandolin players, many of whom are better known to mandolinists than the general jazz market. I can't recall the last jazz mandolin article in Downbeat.

Also, guys, I'm from New Orleans and have a pretty good background and training in jazz, and have been studying jazz history for a lone time. That is not to make me special, but to let you know why I have a unique POV about jazz...it's my folk music.

Apollon and the other great artists may have played jazz tunes but where I come from it's the improvisational skill that makes a master jazz player. Thus those partially improvised but mostly set routines of the vaudeville stage may not really show the improvisational skill of the player.

Or it can work in reverse! Both Armstrong and Bechet would often find something they like and use it over and over as a "set" solo - and these guys certainly had great skill in improvising.

So without hearing Dave play chorus after chorus in a relaxed jam session, I take it back - I really don't know how good of a jazz player he was.

But you guys do get that playing hot tunes and some jazzy licks does not necessarily make a jazz player.

[David Lewis]

Beanzy has a real point - the movers and shakers in the jazz world have usually been the horn players, mostly trumpet or sax, pianists, and rarely another player. Perhaps if Charlie Christian had survived bop would have also been a guitar featured style....and as such mandolin has always been a fringe jazz instrument, in spite of many jazz mandolin players, many of whom are better known to mandolinists than the general jazz market. I can't recall the last jazz mandolin article in Downbeat. Also, guys, I'm from New Orleans and have a pretty good background and training in jazz, and have been studying jazz history for a lone time. That is not to make me special, but to let you know why I have a unique POV about jazz...it's my folk music. Apollon and the other great artists may have played jazz tunes but where I come from it's the improvisational skill that makes a master jazz player. Thus those partially improvised but mostly set routines of the vaudeville stage may not really show the improvisational skill of the player. Or it can work in reverse! Both Armstrong and Bechet would often find something they like and use it over and over as a "set" solo - and these guys certainly had great skill in improvising. So without hearing Dave play chorus after chorus in a relaxed jam session, I take it back - I really don't know how good of a jazz player he was. But you guys do get that playing hot tunes and some jazzy licks does not necessarily make a jazz player.

And therein lays the problem. The line gets moved. Did you go to the right school. Do you play like the right players. Do you use the right chords and scales ...

None of the greats did. But no one gets that either