Are Gilchrist's tuned to C#?

[fscotte]

Around 1:20 Thile says the Gilchrist is pitched to C#, meaning the air chamber/soundbox/helmoltz resonance/etcc... is tuned to C#, whereas the Loars were D and D#. I can hear it as well.

Is this a common theme in his builds or an anomaly?

[robert.najlis]

how do you tell?

[sliebers]

how do you tell?

You can tell by playing that note and hearing how the body resonates, it will come alive and be louder at the tuned pitch. You can also sing the note into the F holes and raise/lower the pitch until the body starts to really resonate and the hummed note will become louder. Try it using an oooh sound. You will be surprised how loud it is when you hit the resonant pitch. Probably best to do that alone as people will think you are crazy.

[robert.najlis]

very cool, thanks!
- oh, and people already pretty much figure I am crazy, so not too much to worry about there

[sliebers]

very cool, thanks!
- oh, and people already pretty much figure I am crazy, so not too much to worry about there

I think most of us luthiers are crazy. Who else would spend so much time obsessing over pieces of wood?

[robert.najlis]

yeah, but that's the sad part - I'm not even a luthier. At least then I would have some cool instruments to show for my insanity

[Luna Pick]

Very cool, thanks for sharing. I just checked and mine really jumps and resonates at D. Guess I better remember that for the open D string.

[Ron McMillan]

I used a harmonica to get a strong accurate tone, and found that D produced the most resonant vibration in the sound chamber. But also interesting was the fact that the A note produced almost as much resonance.

[Namder]

My Checherini resonates strongly on G#

[Sterling]

I play trumpet at a Cathedral in Syracuse, NY that is pitched in D! I've tried playing Trumpet Voluntary in D by Jerimiah Clark in D flat, E flat , and finally in D. The tune is dull(ish) until played in D!

[fscotte]

I'm guessing few of us own a Gilchrist than can confirm...

[JeffD]

I haven't thought about this much. It makes sense but I never really considered it. A number of questions come to mind:

Are all mandolins pitched to some specific frequency, or only well built ones?

Is that a good thing, really?

Is a good luthier able to determine to what note the built mandolin will be pitched?

Shouldn't a good luthier mention to what note his mandolins are pitched when he sells it.

Could I custom order a mandolin pitched to a note of my choosing?

What note should I chose?


I have other questions, but this is enough for now.

[sliebers]

I think it's simply a matter of the cubic volume inside the mandolin and the size of the F holes that dictate the fundamental resonant frequency. You could probably make a cardboard box to the same volume and make F holes to get the similar results. The quality of the resonance would not be as good, or strong, but it would demonstrate the principal, Helmholtz resonance.
Every dreadnought size guitar I've ever made resonates at F#. The size of the box and sound hole stay consistent from build to build.
My mandolins vary slightly as I've made ribs deeper, changed archings, and F hole sizes as I've progressed. I've had them come in at C#, D, and D#, with D being the most common. You can fine tune that with F hole size to a point.

[JeffD]

So what note should a mandolin be tuned to in order to optimize the response over the full range of notes? Or does it matter?

Is being tuned to a specific note or frequency the sign of a good build, or good design, or just an interesting anomaly of no consequence? Should an instrument be chosen or not chosen because of the note to which it is tuned?

[Jeff Mando]

Probably more of an insight into how the mind and ear of Chris Thile work, than anything else. I didn't even know my mandolin had a Helmholtz until I joined this forum. Thanks, I guess.....

[Spruce]

Is a good luthier able to determine to what note the built mandolin will be pitched?

Shouldn't a good luthier mention to what note his mandolins are pitched when he sells it.

Could I custom order a mandolin pitched to a note of my choosing?

What note should I chose?

I remember the first Siminoff book back in the 70's (and probably still) had a whole section on tuning the top...
I guess my question is this:

If you tune the top plate to a note before joining it to the ribs, trimming the excess, adding the back, etc. etc., what note does it wind up at?

...and, once the top is in place and the body assembled, how much control do you then have to further tune it?

With this in mind, it always seemed like a crap shoot to me as to what note you are going to wind up with?
Or, whether or not you will be in tune with any note, and not 10-20 cents off the mark...

[Tavy]

So what note should a mandolin be tuned to in order to optimize the response over the full range of notes? Or does it matter?

That depends on many other factors including the frequencies of the other resonances (main top plate resonance and their harmonics).

Is being tuned to a specific note or frequency the sign of a good build, or good design, or just an interesting anomaly of no consequence? Should an instrument be chosen or not chosen because of the note to which it is tuned?

I guess a good instrument has the frequencies of all the resonances working together, rather than isolated from each other.

[fscotte]

No please don't get off topic. I should have known the Cafe tends to go off on tangents.

Maybe I should just contact Steve.

[Spruce]

No please don't get off topic. I should have known the Cafe tends to go off on tangents.

You're getting off-topic...

[fscotte]

You're getting off-topic...

Ya but you have nice tonewood. <----- off topic.

[Spruce]

Sorry, couldn't resist...

[billhay4]

Maybe I should just contact Steve.

Maybe you should.
Bill

[fscotte]

Email sent, hopefully Steve'll offer some insight.

[Tobin]

I remember the first Siminoff book back in the 70's (and probably still) had a whole section on tuning the top...
I guess my question is this:

If you tune the top plate to a note before joining it to the ribs, trimming the excess, adding the back, etc. etc., what note does it wind up at?

...and, once the top is in place and the body assembled, how much control do you then have to further tune it?

With this in mind, it always seemed like a crap shoot to me as to what note you are going to wind up with?
Or, whether or not you will be in tune with any note, and not 10-20 cents off the mark...

I ain't no lootheeyer, but I think you're right. They can tap-tune the top to perfection, but once it's assembled with everything else, there's no possible way to end up with an overall Helmholtz frequency that's exactly where they wanted it. Variations in the wood grain and density, amount of glue used, residual stresses, and a million other variables would mean that the best one could do is to get it "pretty close". What that might equate to in cents from true pitch, I have no idea. But surely there's more to the final resonance than just internal volume and the size of the holes? And adjusting any of these variables after it's fully assembled doesn't seem very likely. But maybe some of our luthiers will show me that I'm wrong.

I do know a banjo player who tunes the head on his banjo to C# and says it sounds better that way. A banjo is a different critter, of course, but maybe there's something to it.

[Jeff Mando]

I do know a banjo player who tunes the head on his banjo to C# and says it sounds better that way.

I know drummers who "tune" their kits -- then proceed to beat on them!