Interesting '22 F-4 hybrid

[Bernie Daniel]

This seller reports that this 1922 F-4 has a factory installed 1960's F-5 neck and has been valued at $5,000 by Gruhn. It is a neat looking mandolin for sure.

I know that Gibson certainly did use mahogany at least for F-12 necks in the 1950's and '60's so it could well be what happened. The seller would help his/herself by posting a photocopy of the Gruhn evaluation?

Personally I am surprised that this mandolin would be evaluated at that amount as I do not see much collectable value it it?

[allenhopkins]

Odd li'l "mutt," now. Concur that it's not a collector's item, at least not as much as a "stock" '22 F-4 would be ("Loar era," y'know). But as an example of Gibson factory renovation work, quite interesting. Replacement tuners, recent refinish as well as the replacement neck. Strangely, seems to be the original bridge (?).

Proof of the pudding, IMHO, would be how it sounds and plays. Some musician might have a really good time with it. Apparently someone's been playing it for the past 40 years, at least, so it's "broken in..."

$4K? I dunno 'bout that.

[Jim Hilburn]

I posted this one in the instruments that won't get a bid thread.
The peghead looks consistent with what they were doing in the 60's, but they must have had a stash of the 70's inlayed fingerboards which I speculate to be Japanese imports since they were on so many Japanese instruments and Gibson was having Epiphones made there.

[Bernie Daniel]

[QUOTE=allenhopkins;1420201]O... Strangely, seems to be the original bridge (?).../QUOTE]

I was wondering about that myself -- but in 1922 wouldn't Gibson have probbly installed an adjustable bridge. Could have been either I guess as F-5 production was just starting.

I could see myself bidding on that one.................

[sgarrity]

Gruhn is in the business of pushing the market. His appraisals are good for insurance purposes only. This might be a fun piece at $2,500.

[jim simpson]

So did the neck change require a reposition of the bridge?

[Jeff Mando]

Maybe it's the angle of the photo or maybe it's due to the renecking, but between the fretboard extension and the pickguard it looks like 1/2 to 2/3 of the soundhole is blocked.....

[MikeEdgerton]

I sold a 32 F2 that had a similar repair, not that inlay on the neck, several years ago. The only reason it sold for 4 grand was because it was in a Loar case that was worth a few grand.

[Ken Waltham]

What type of tuners are currently on this F4? Are they Gibson tuners of the period? I am not familiar with 1960's style tuners, after the Kluson Deluxe style. Also, the large and small peghead scrolls both look ill done, is that the late 60's norm? Too much "hook" on the small one, the large one looks too small, too much hook again.
I'd say for a player, no more than 2500.00, perhaps $2000.00.
It is quite likely it plays and sounds great, but is strictly utilitarian.

[Jim Hilburn]

I looked up some 60s f5s and the peghead said were very much like that.

[Jim Hilburn]

This is a 66.

[Jim Hilburn]

This is the subject mandolin.

[Bernie Daniel]

This is a 66.

Yes I think the head stock is '60's for sure.

But I don't know what the deal is with the pick guard? A 1921 F-4 would not have that screw in the top but a lot of '60's Gibson pick guards did. That said the shape is wrong for a '60's F-model.

Also can someone explain how you can put an F-5 neck on an F-4 and still end up with a "short neck" mandolin?

[Gary Hedrick]

To sum up this instrument for the price asked...."that ain't no part of nuthin'"

[Bernie Daniel]

To sum up this instrument for the price asked...."that ain't no part of nuthin'"

But on eBay he still might find a buyer at his price!

[Bernie Daniel]

What type of tuners are currently on this F4? Are they Gibson tuners of the period? I am not familiar with 1960's style tuners, after the Kluson Deluxe style. Also, the large and small peghead scrolls both look ill done, is that the late 60's norm? Too much "hook" on the small one, the large one looks too small, too much hook again.
I'd say for a player, no more than 2500.00, perhaps $2000.00.
It is quite likely it plays and sounds great, but is strictly utilitarian.

Those tuners look like the ones found on the 1970's F-models? I recall buying a set like that out of a catalog (no internet) back in 1973 only to find (to my dismay) that they would not fit on a 1919 F-2. Who knew back then?

[Jim Hilburn]

An F4 has the same scale board as an F5 but on an original they shape it around the sound hole starting at the 19th fret. The F5 board on this one has 22 before it goes into the extension and partially covers the hole. That's how you get the 12th in the right place and the bridge in the right place.

[Bernie Daniel]

An F4 has the same scale board as an F5 but on an original they shape it around the sound hole starting at the 19th fret. The F5 board on this one has 22 before it goes into the extension and partially covers the hole. That's how you get the 12th in the right place and the bridge in the right place.

OK thanks. I would have been more interested in it if they had made a long neck F-4.

Mike Compton has one but his was purpose carved by Gilchrist to have the longer neck -- so perhaps on this one it would not have worked out so well.

[Ken Waltham]

Yep, those pegheads sure do look the same. Good on the tuners, too. I felt like it was all OK, but was not familiar with that vintage of Gibson specs, etc. Interesting item.... we'll see how it goes.

[Jeff Mando]

The ad says it was refretted and new tuners were installed in 1999. It has had the same owner for the last 40 years.

[Bernie Daniel]

The ad says it was refretted and new tuners were installed in 1999. It has had the same owner for the last 40 years.

If those tuners were installed in 1999, I wonder what year they were actually first purchased?

Here is a pic of the tuners I bought at the Columbus Folk Music Center in 1973. I kept them in a drawer and installed them on a old "Loar tribute" mandolin that I picked up about 8 years ago and use as my "travelolin".

Second pic is from the eBay add.

They are similar not identical. I have no idea who made the ones I bought 42 years ago.

[Jim Hilburn]

Not sure about the first but the second on the subject mandolin are Gotoh.

[Ken Waltham]

Not sure about the first but the second on the subject mandolin are Gotoh.

So, are these Japanese tuners from the 70's??

[Jim Hilburn]

The ad says the tuners were installed in '99 BUT Gotoh is what the 70's Gibsons had and the engraving then looks the same as it would have in '99.

[Bernie Daniel]

The ad says the tuners were installed in '99 BUT Gotoh is what the 70's Gibsons had and the engraving then looks the same as it would have in '99.

From time to time I've seen those Gotoh F-styles for sale on eBay as "new old stock" -- often as not still in the original box too. Here is a set for example. Unused but no mention of how old they are.