1924 F-5 Master Model Mandolin

[f5loar]

Monroe's 2nd Loar was reported stolen shortly after his death in 1996. It still has not been found. James Monroe had insurance on it.

[GKWilson]

If it were mine I'd sell it right away.
I'd buy a Kimble two point to round out my collection,
and a nice little cabin on the Naches River with a great pickin' porch.
I'd invite my buddies over and we'd pick some of my Grandfathers favorite tunes.
If I kept it, it would be stolen, or dropped, or a school bus would run it over.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Whilst not being a 'Loar' fanatic,i'm as eager as anybody to find out if this is the real thing,mainly for the OP's benefit. If it turns out to be an authentic 'Loar',then as we know, it will be worth a lot of money. If it was mine,& having the real potential of being a Lloyd Loar mandolin,i'd be sitting on the doorstep of Gryphon Stringed instruments (maybe not sitting,but jumping up & down) waiting to see Frank Ford, in double quick time.
It needs appraising for what it is, & also an examination regarding it's condition & any possible work required to be done on it. Only then can the owner decide what to do with it, & present any prospective buyer with an accurate description of it,
Ivan

[James Rankine]

No doubt the pictures are of a very interesting mandolin.
I'd like to see a picture of the Lloyd Lear label.

[danb]

294 in the archive..

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/signature_dates.html

[Astro]

Well I am happily surprised. Very exciting to see such a beautiful instrument recovered and reintroduced--however it turns out.

And I hope the OP will keep in touch and let us know. We all want to see a Charlie Brown catch Lucy off guard just once and punt that thing out the ball park !

PLEASE, find time to take some more pictures and report back on the appraisal when you can.

[Darryl Wolfe]

294 in the archive..

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/signature_dates.html

Looks like we need to reconcile again..I'm 4 off. 291 is total Loar instruments..241 mandolins

[Tobin]

Were it me (and it is not), I would not want the responsibility of owning and stewarding such an instrument. Upon confirmation of what it was I would (just me, I am not suggesting anyone do this) sell it immediately, and buy maybe four or five of the very best mandolins being made today, and a couple or three vintage snakehead A styles.

And breath a sigh of relief that I didn't own something so irreplaceable.

But that's me. I want my avocation to be fun, not an overwhelming responsibility.

Not that it will ever happen to me, but I would take the exact opposite approach. Owning a Loar isn't any different than owning any other great mandolin. All this "responsibility" stuff is just in our heads. Sure, I'd want to take care of it and protect the value, but it's still just a mandolin. I'd love it and cherish it, but I'd play the snot out of it. If I ever sold it, I know I'd be kicking myself every day for the rest of my life for letting it go. Which is to say, the regret would be more of a burden than the responsibility.

294 in the archive..

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/signature_dates.html

Wow, I never realized that he signed 46 labels on February 18th, 1924. If we include this new one, it would be 47. That's one busy day of signing one's name. A typical 8-hour day is 480 minutes, so he signed a label about every 10 minutes on average. Which, I suppose, is not unrealistic if he spent 10 minutes inspecting each one to make sure it met his standards. But one wonders: did he actually inspect more than this and rejected some of them? Was this batch actually spread out over the course of days or weeks, and he just put the same date on all of them?

[darrylicshon]

If i ever found one i wouldn't be able to justify keeping it to my wife , but i would play it for a few months atleast before i sold it, then i would go by most likely uesd Nugget or something of the like and would be very happy knowing i owned and played alot , a Loar. And would enjoy my new Nugget

[Cheryl Watson]

Wow, what a find! Congrats to Grateful Grandson! It's a really pretty Loar and the experts will get it in perfect working order without diminishing its value. I'm so proud of all the helpful, honest and knowledgeable members of the Mandolin Cafe who are giving great advice to the grandson.

OK, some of you might get a kick out of this: I just told my bluegrass hatin' mama (she's 91 yrs. old on Friday, her birth year is 1924) this story and just mentioned that I wish MY Grandfather had played a Gibson Lloyd Loar and she said, "Your Grandfather played the juice harp." No such luck for us--

[Jeff Mando]

Wow, I never realized that he signed 46 labels on February 18th, 1924. If we include this new one, it would be 47. That's one busy day of signing one's name. A typical 8-hour day is 480 minutes, so he signed a label about every 10 minutes on average. Which, I suppose, is not unrealistic if he spent 10 minutes inspecting each one to make sure it met his standards. But one wonders: did he actually inspect more than this and rejected some of them? Was this batch actually spread out over the course of days or weeks, and he just put the same date on all of them?

I'm guessing Taylor Swift signs her name a lot more than 47 times a day......she's no Lloyd Loar, but she does have a signature model guitar!

Logic would say Loar signed a "stack" of labels on his desk and applied them as the instruments were ready. I can't see 47 being finished in one day. That logic would account for missing numbers, etc.

As far as value goes, years ago when the "vintage guitar thing" started my friend who bought and sold came over to look at my collection. He would pick up a guitar and say "this is cool how often do you play it?" I would say, "never, I just keep it because it is cool and I paid $100 for it." His response was, "it is now worth $4000, so it, in effect, is costing you $4000 to keep it." (money that could be used for other things) Anyway, I took his advice and sold a lot of cool things that I had for years. I wish now that I had never listened to him.

[terzinator]

My car-nut cousin once said this: "I've learned I can own pretty much any car out there that I want to. I just can't own them all at once."

So, with respect to this side conversation of "what I would do if it were me who inherited a Loar out of the blue" I'd hop in the car and bring it up to Gryphon and get it appraised, sure. I'd go to Frank Ford or someone equally respected, and have it evaluated and checked out for anything loose or cracked or otherwise untoward. (In my neck of the woods, I might bring it over to Hans Brentrup.)

And then, I'd play it for a while. Maybe a month. If it was all that, if it gave me chills when playing it, if it amazed me daily, I would keep it for a while longer. Maybe a year. Because there are very few "things" that can do that. It might get me to practice my scales.

I'd think about contacting Grisman or Reicschman or Thile or whomever, and letting them have a go at it, and maybe record a little something on it, for posterity. (I'd want to sit in on those sessions to watch, I know that.)

But I'd always have in the back of my mind that I could let it go back into the wild, if I wanted, to let someone else have a chance to own it. And then I'd find something else, that might be less valuable, but equally interesting.

And I'd be satisfied with the memory of having owned a Loar for a while.

[BradKlein]

...she said, "Your Grandfather played the juice harp." No such luck for us--

I hadn't heard of the "juice harp", and didn't know that it's an old alternative to Jews or Jaw Harp! Here's what wiki has to say:

"There are many theories for the origin of the name Jew's harp. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, this name appears earliest in Walter Raleigh's Discouerie Guiana in 1596, spelled "Iewes Harp." The "jaw" variant is attested at least as early as 1774[6] and 1809,[7] the "juice" variant appeared only in the late 19th and 20th centuries… Theories that the name is a corruption of "jaws" or "jeu" are described by the Oxford English Dictionary as "baseless and inept""

[Spruce]

If it were mine I'd sell it right away.

IMHO, this is a lousy time to be selling a Loar, unless you really need the bones...
After seeing a well-known Loar going for 165K after supposedly selling for 225K not all that long ago, I'd be thinking of buying one if you had the scratch...

So-ooo, I think you'd look back 10 years from now and really regret it...
Just my .02, and obviously YMMV...

[Timbofood]

I'm with you Bruce, if it fell in my lap, I'd enjoy being a custodian for as long as I wanted, then, when they go through the roof again part with it. And, like you Chris, enjoy the fond memories to my dying day, or as long as memory serves, whichever comes first.

[Andrew B. Carlson]

If those pictures are of his actual mandolin, it's a Loar. If it's not, I'm a monkey's uncle.

If that was a fake, I'd still pay quite a bit to own it. Just gorgeous.

[Jeff Mando]

If you consign it to a dealer they will take a (large) percentage and it might take months or years to find a big-money buyer. If you sell it yourself on eBay, eBay and Paypal will take a combined 14 percent off the top and the sale is reported to the IRS with a 1099 form as income. You could place an ad on your local Craigslist and maybe somebody will bring you a shoebox full of cash! (unlikely and somewhat dangerous) You could sell at one of the large guitar shows for cash. (yes, some buyers carry THAT kind of money!) OR sell here on the Classifieds, once you have the appraisal. To avoid Paypal fees, you can use a bank wire to transfer the money, the cost is minimal, less than $35, you will still have to report it as income.

(sorry to ruin the fun..)

[Timbofood]

Or one could "put the word out" in some circles and keep your mouth shut when the bag of cash shows up, rather like buying moonshine, heh, heh


Oh, and keep your mouth shut.

[DataNick]

Here's a philosophical question for everyone:

If your basic needs for living (adequate food, housing, clothing, transportaion, medical care, and adequate disposal finances) were guaranteed for the rest of your life; would you keep a Loar "given" to you on the condition that you could never sell it?

I would...

[OldGus]

Grandpa rocks!

[George R. Lane]

Here's a philosophical question for everyone:

If your basic needs for living (adequate food, housing, clothing, transportaion, medical care, and adequate disposal finances) were guaranteed for the rest of your life; would you keep a Loar "given" to you on the condition that you could never sell it?

I would...

In a heartbeat.

[Timbofood]

Could I "rent" it?
If I could bequeath it to my grandchildren I would in a heartbeat

[rfloyd]

"you will still have to report it as income."

What is the rule on inheritances being tax free?

[Jordan S.]

Frankly, I'd probably sell it and put my kids through college.

Kids ruin everything...

[DataNick]

Could I "rent" it?
If I could bequeath it to my grandchildren I would in a heartbeat

The scenario is that "you" could never "sell it"...bequeathing it to someone in a will is another matter...

What I'm getting at is that it seems a lot of us on the cafe are looking at a Loar as equity that could be used to obtain something else versus the experience of having an incredible instrument to enjoy, without any relation to the needs (not desires) of life.

If I don't need anything basic, why wouldn't I keep a Loar on the condition that I could never sell it. Meaning if grandpa left it to me in his will on that condition, would I accept it?

I would!