Warning to fellow mandolin players

[Darren Bailey]

Hi,
I thought I'd pass this on as I wish I'd read it a few years ago. I've been suffering increasing numbness and pins and needles in my hands. This has progressed to the point that I can't hold the plectrum for more than half a tune before all feeling goes from the fingers on my right hand. Those of you who've been there know what is coming next. I've been diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome which is very annoying as it has taken away (temporarily I hope) one of the real sources of pleasure in my life.
Not surprisingly I've taken professional advice and have done a lot of reading. I'm now convinced that if I'd followed a regine of stretches of my hands I could have avoided the worst of what's happened. A number of experts agree that one cause can be constant pressure on the muscles pressing the thumb and finger together. Stretching the fingers back to balance the muscle development is easing the discomfort but can also help to prevent the condition developing. Of course a loose grip on the pick will help too.
I'm reasonably confident that other factors have helped the problem develop (too much typing, lifting weights without professional advice, hours of driving every day etc etc) but the symptoms are particulalry promounced when I try to play.
So my little bit of advice is to extend your fingers to full stretch and arch them back every time you.ve been playing.
Hopefully the operation they're fixing up for me will do the trick, I've heard other people say it can clear it up. But if we can avoid it in the first place it's got to be a good thing. And stay sensitive to your fingers - if you start getting numbness or pins and needles don't ignore it like I foolishly did and assume it will go away.
This has come just as I felt my up down pick action had made a break through which is doubly frustrating. I know others will have had this kind of experience and I'd gratefully hear what has worked for you or indeed what you found best to avoid. I'm fitted with medical gloves and that's given me a full night's sleep for the first time in a couple of years so I can recommend them - but they're no good for a loose wrist when making mandolin magic!

[Jim Hudson]

Much sympathy Darren. I'm blessed to have reached the age where I see a bunch of my musician friends and myself, begin to suffer various forms of repetitive motion associated degenerative hand problems. The stretch I will describe seems to have really helped me. I've got arthritis of the trapezius bone in the base of my left (fretting) hand. I stand, often in the moist warmth of the shower, with my arm extended horizontal to my side, and rotate my hand counterclockwise until my fingers are pointing down, thumb pointing behind me, then flatten the hand on the wall and try to get your palm to contact the wall. Then turn your head away from the wall and stretch, hold your stomach in and your chest out, hold it for 15 or 20 seconds. Repeat on the other hand. I do this every morning and sometimes when the band takes a break. It seems to "open" my chest and pull my shoulders back, reversing the tendency to cave your shoulders in over your ... keyboard, mandolin, guitar, whatever you are currently working on. It hurts a bit at first, but then alot of good things do ...

[nickster60]

Darren I had horrible carpal tunnel and I still have a mild case. But they also found I had a thyroid condition. Carpal Tunnel is a side effect I never knew I had a problem until I got a blood test. It might be a simple as mine was.

[Paul Busman]

Good luck to you. I work in a hospital OR where we do lots of Carpal Tunnel procedures. I can tell you that the surgery is quick and usually quite effective. Follow your surgeon's post op instructions and you'll do fine. Don't rush it!

[Mike Scott]

Well, I have a frozen right shoulder. The pain also radiates into my hand. I can no longer finger pick the guitar or dobro. Plus holding the guitar is problematic too. Holding the pick is not an issue, so I am now a mandolin player only. Trying to work on some new techniques and learn some new songs in various genres. I guess I will begin to sell off some of the other instruments.

We should all appreciate being able to indulge in music playing; you never know when it could be nipped in the bud!

[lflngpicker]

Hey Darren, It pains me to hear of your suffering and how it is affecting your health and happiness. We are behind you and I will remember you in my prayers. Dan

[fatt-dad]

I'm in the midst of managing an ulnar nerve dysfunction. It's like my funny-bone is active 24/7. Pinky's numb, ring finger's half-numb and the nerve's lit up all up the arm.

You have my sympathy.

f-d

[Johnny60]

Hi Darren,

If you get yourself to see a qualified physio, they can give you some great excercises to help with tendonitis and carpal tunnel impingement. I've got a great one up here in Yorkshire, but it's a bit of trek from your part of the world!

Stay away from surgery if at possible - a good physio will help massively.

I'm currently on the road to recovery from a really nasty bout of tendonitis and the excercises have genuinely helped a great deal.

Cheers

John

[bigskygirl]

Best of luck to you Darren, you'll be fixed up and playing again before you know it. Keep us posted.

[nickster60]

I had gone to the all of the specialists and they all recommended surgery. I have been down the same road you are on and I know it isn't pleasant. My GP insisted on some additional blood work and they found my thyroid levels were very low. It happens more often in women but it does happen also in men, so it is often overlooked. My hands are in pretty good shape now but riding motorcycles still aggravates things. But not riding motorcycles aggravates me so I guess it is a trade off. Best of luck Darren

[Folkmusician.com]

The biggest improvement for me came from changing my sleep positions and the position of my hands throughout the day. It took a few years to be subconsciously aware of my hands at all times. As far as I can tell, this is the main change that allowed me to get it under control. I did have to eliminate almost all of my playing time since I can't get away from hours a day at the computer and working with my hands (gripping hand tools). Lifting heavy things and squeezing really flares it up. If at all possible, I try not to use full strength to open stuck lids, I grab a couple less grocery bags at once, etc... I can see where weight lifting would be among the most damaging activities.

Surprisingly, cycling (road and mountain) hasn't been too bad. I feel it flare up on long or very hard rides, but not terribly so. Hiking and backpacking are actually worse for me. Anything past a few miles and I start to feel my fingers tingle. Wiggling them and holding something in my hand helps. Racing motorcycles (which I quit doing) took a toll.

Most of the guys I know that had to get surgery are in occupations that require constant heavy lifting and gripping. Predominantly, construction.

[JeffD]

I had pins and needles in the fingers and aches up the hand and arm. Limited me to half an hour playing.

For unrelated reasons I had a complete physical and was diagnosed with Type II diabetes. Got my blood sugar corrected through drugs and diet, and all the pain went away. Gone. Like magic.

All I am saying is that it might not be obvious what the cause is. Take good care.

[Robert Smyth]

Another possible angle for some of you folks out there is Lyme's Disease. I tested positive last year and did six weeks of antibiotics which helped a lot. I was having migrating pains from one side of the body to the other. I'd have a 10+ pain when I'd press my right thumb against my middle finger, then the next day that pain was gone but had migrated over to my left hand. Elbows and knees were affected as well. Biggest help after the antibiotics was powdered andrographis and astragulus herbs (a good accupuncturist can get quality herbs for you) and lots of vitamins A-E. Sam-E also helped me, not only for mood issues, but for connective tissue problems. Also getting the shower as hot as you can stand it, then put your hands right up near the shower head where it's extra hot, keeping your hands there as long as you can stand it.

After all that, my hands feel really strong, there's no pain in them anymore, and I feel so much better. I know how demoralizing it can be when your passion for mandolin gets threatened by health issues...just hang in there and be very proactive about seeking help and remedies for your various maladies!

[Toni Schula]

Darren, I wish all the best for you! Hope you can pick again soon.
Bauzl

[Pete Braccio]

I had the carpel tunnel and ulnar nerve surgeries and both were quick and relatively easy. Unfortunately, I let the ulnar nerve issue go too long and actually lost muscle mass in my left hand (and that ain't comin' back). So, my advice is get the surgery. Don't screw around thinking that it's "only a pinched nerve".

[Joel Glassman]

Hi Darren,
Stay away from surgery if at possible - a good physio will help massively.
Cheers John

I agree with John's comment. You need to do due diligence on this. Research other types of therapy. Try every other possibility including nothing--resting for a long period to see if you heal from repetitive motion problems. The effects of surgery are something you probably can't undo. What if its really arthritis you have? Surgery would be a mistake. I refused to do it & as it turned out was mis-diagnosed . A friend did and really regretted it. I'll spare you the details. It should be an absolute last resort. At the very least you need a second or third opinion. I learned something in my tour through the medical establishment regarding hand problems. Doctors make mistakes and some don't understand what they're looking at. Its not incompetence. Its fallability...

[Violingirl]

I have suffered thru CTS for almost 20 years now. I sleep in splints to help with the swelling and numbness and I work at being sure all my keyboards and other things are ergonomically set up. I have yet to have surgery, and I must admit, I am afraid of it. I gave up playing my violin for 10 years as the pain was unbareable at times. Now that I do not work on a computer all day long I am able to play again.

I found a good massage therapist that worked on my arms and hands to work out tightness there and I must say it helped greatly. I also am very aware when my hands have had enough, and though I hate to have to stop, I do. I am able to play now without large amounts of pain and numbness. I do put a limit on my time playing as I do not want to have to call it quits again.

I wish you the best and wish you a smooth and successful recovery. I know how heart breaking it is to be in such pain and numbness doing a thing you love.

[Randi Gormley]

So sorry to hear this. But once you figure out the best way to alleviate the pain, I'd pay very careful attention to how you hold your hand/wrist when playing (or doing anything that involves using those muscles). It's not just once you ease up (by surgery or exercises or other therapies) it's when everything gets better. I had to re-configure how I held my mandolin, straightening out the wrist (same with my steering wheel) and so far (knock on wood) my carpal tunnel is in remission or something. But I'm very aware now how I hold my wrist and my hands on my mandolin. Mine was a relatively mild case; I hope yours clears up with minimal problems.

[darylcrisp]

Darren

Hoping you find a relief of the issue as quickly as possible.

I highly recommend, to all folks, the thought of starting a practice of yoga with a qualified caring instructor(iyengar is excellent due to its structured practice and attentiveness to opening parts of the body that we have damaged and closed).
Yoga will help in attempting to reverse and stop issues like frozen shoulder, carpal tunnel, back issues, body imbalances, etc.
Its a lifelong practice that will help balance the whole body and bring comfort and ease of movement to all areas. You're never too old or too anything to start Yoga with a great teacher.

Massage therapy and acupuncture can help immensely as well and is highly beneficial. I work in the "modern" medical world, but use and see the benefits daily of the old world methods.

If you do have the surgery, as others have mentioned, usually there is a positive result.

Having started mandolin at 54 yrs old I try to really be careful with having no stress in my hands and having a real easy setup on my instrument and I really like light gauge strings as well.

best of luck, keep us posted on your condition and results
d

[Bertram Henze]

It's not just once you ease up (by surgery or exercises or other therapies) it's when everything gets better.

Yes, finding out what caused it in the first place keeps it from coming back. I succeeded in keeping my essential right-hand tremor (great for ruining finger-picking on a slow song or raising a glass of water to your mouth) at bay by finding a more relaxed arm position and a different pick grip, but only after years of experimenting.

[Pasha Alden]

Hope the operation goes well. Thanks for the warning. I have been very sensitive to my hands and have always done stretches, It certainly helps. I guess the idea is then also not to clench the plectrum to tightly?

[Carl Robin]

As a preventative measure, and to relieve muscle tension, I hang from a chinning bar. It's the opposite of heavy lifting because the muscles are pulling the opposite way, and loosens up a lot of accumulated shoulder and neck tension. Oddly, even the hand, wrist and forearm are relieved, and the joints are decompressed. Those under medical care, ask first. And don't do it if it hurts. Darren, I hope you are back to playing soon, and can forget all about that numbness.

[allenhopkins]

...I have yet to have surgery, and I must admit, I am afraid of it...

I had carpal-tunnel release surgery as part of the operation to remove the pins holding my broken wrist after it healed. My ortho surgeon said that, since there's almost always bleeding into the tunnel during wrist surgery, in a huge majority of cases he's called upon to do the carpal-tunnel operation a few months after the wrist operation. As a result, he recommends forestalling the later surgery by doing both operations at once.

I went along with his recommendation, and have had no after-effects from the carpal-tunnel surgery in the year-plus since the wrist was repaired. While I strongly concur with others' recommendations to investigate all alternatives to surgery, I would say that with a good surgeon, the carpal-tunnel release should not make one unduly apprehensive. At least that's been my experience.

I do exercise the wrist and hand for 20-30 minutes every day, and ice it thereafter. So I'm paying a lot of attention to it, and perhaps not everyone would want to adopt an exercise regimen like mine -- which was dictated by the Sept. 2013 wrist fracture.

Good luck!

[Steve VandeWater]

I had numbness and tingling in my right arm / hand for a couple of years. I finally figured out that it was a pinched nerve in my neck caused by the way I slept. I got another thicker pillow which supported my head better and it went away quickly. I was lucky it wasnt something more serious. Just another possibility for those suffering numbness

[Barry Wilson]

I noticed some funky picks at the place I got those power pins from. they had stick on curved grips or built into a pick. I think they would be much easier to kepp a grip of. I almost ordered some. i think it was called an f1 pick?