mandola choices

[Eddie Sheehy]

"I'd love a picture of that resonator mandola. Especially with you holding it, Eddy. Do you play it electrically? what do the dancer's think. Or a better question: what do the callers say about your amplifier? "

In my experience the Caller doesn't care what's played or what you play it with as long as their microphone is the loudest output and you keep whatever beat they start...

[Jim Garber]

Jim, did you come to the mandolin after the fiddle?

I played mandolin a bit in college but took on both in trad music together later.

I'd be curious what everyone reading this thread thinks of this video? It sounds like a fine instrument to me but, then, I don't have much experience with mandolas. And many of you do. I've asked Jeff for a picture of the back side.

It does sounds very nice but I wonder how much you will be able to hear yourself in a contra band situation esp with a caller over the music. An F5 has a lot of treble attack and the holes give you a bit of aural feedback but a mandola is lower in pitch and might blend in more.

Isn't there a photo of the back on the jbovier site?

[acousticphd]

Thanks for all the advice.

I hope to hear more from all of you.

Interesting thread, as I also play mandolin/mandola for old-time/country, contra, and English country dances.

My thoughts are these. First, if you are to consider spending ~$2500, you can consider any number of fantastic potential choices, especially (if you are patient) a used, non-F style mandola. In this budget, you are almost certainly talking about a carved instrument, in which case I would not rule out an oval-hole mandola. (I would be thinking Old Wave).

I typically play an A5 for contra dances, but really this is only because my 1915 oval hole can be a little cranky about staying in tune for ~10 min contra sets. My mandola is an oval-hole flattop, and though I don't use it for contra, it is great for English (which is more graceful and less raucous), and even old-time.

I'm certainly not arguing that f-hole and oval hole instruments differ in projection and sustain properties. But an oval hole instrument can do just about anything an f-hole instrument can, and in some ways is more versatile, especially in a mic'd group situation. I hate the term "cutting through"; IMO this is code for "I'm the loudest". You should all be on equal footing in a band like this. Limitations about being heard and "cutting through" have almost nothing to do with the instrument, and almost everything to do with doing whatever possible to get the best good sound from everyone, and having a priority in your group - whether a band, or an impromptu jam - to work for creating a blend where every instrument is heard and contributing. Tell your piano/banjo player not to play so loud.

[Pasha Alden]

Thanks Eddie - I was at a stage going to purchase a mandola from you so if in order I will go and look there.

[Perry Babasin]

That J.Bovier sounds great imo...

[allenhopkins]

Hard to tell too much from YouTube audio, but IMHO the JBovier doesn't really outshine my Eastman MDA-615, which is available used (here, e.g.) for well under your budget limit.

There is something about the carved-top, f-hole characteristic sound, that "cuts through," as they say, without being louder than the other instruments. And if there's a fair amount of chording, counter-melody, harmony etc. involved, having a distinctive, more percussive attack, quick decay -- which is what you get with that type of instrument -- seems well-suited.

[Eddie Sheehy]

Eastman don't make the 615MDA anymore and the 815MDA is now Sunburst, but I agree with Allen that it outshines the Jbovier. The Eastman mandolas sell used between $1,100 and $1,500 with the 815MDA having the fancier woods and appointments being in the upper end of that range.

[Jim Nollman]

The phrase "cutting through" has very little to do with who is the loudest. It's about each instrument finding its own unique frequency and resonance niche while playing in an ensemble. When everyone finds their niche, all the instruments can be heard (and meld) equally, whether loud or soft, amplified or not.

For a mandolin in a bluegrass or contra dance band, the need to cut through seems mostly about creating workable dynamics with a fiddler. That's because a fiddle and a mandolin have a similar frequency range, so you've got to share the niche. F holes work better than oval holes in that situation because they don't sustain as much, and the drier sound has more defined edges (less echo) than an oval hole. That's why it's so much easier to play percussively on an F5 than on an F4. For the same reason, the idea of "cutting through" seems moot if the mandolin is playing with a bass and mid-range piano.

Having said that, I am aware that there are probably more contra dance bands with mandolin players strumming old Gibson oval holes than anything else. Personally, I love to play percussive counter-rhythms using lots of double stops.

Let me add that banjos are only played too loud by banjo players who, (for whatever reason) are ignoring the ensemble dynamics. It's hard enough to make good music with people who understand dynamics. So why bother if one person is sucking all the air out of the room?

[Jim Nollman]

Because it is tuned half an octave below the fiddle and mandolin, a mandola opens up a different potential for dynamics. It's niche is not the same as a fiddle. In my own band situation, it seems closer in niche to a piano than to a guitar, because the guitar is usually just strumming chords to the beat with an occasional bass walk. The piano does a lot of varied things, including melody for waltzes. For either contra or bluegrass, it seems the mandola will be a lot of fun to explore. I envision playing unison melodies with the fiddle. And taking turns inventing counterpoint off the melody.

I do believe the drier, more focused sound of an F hole is best for that specific situation.

[Charles E.]

Jim, I see that you play a BRW mandolin. This just showed up in the Mandolin Cafe classifieds........

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/81564

Above your price range but sweet!

[catmandu2]

...
There is something about the carved-top, f-hole characteristic sound, that "cuts through," as they say, without being louder than the other instruments. And if there's a fair amount of chording, counter-melody, harmony etc. involved, having a distinctive, more percussive attack, quick decay -- which is what you get with that type of instrument -- seems well-suited.

I'm consonant with the "compromise" view of the dola--I always felt it was my most versatile instrument and until I got the banjos fired-up again I played dola more than the rest. It's a bit of "middle-ground" solution to the predilection, but impracticality, for all the pickin strings. And I prefer my arch-top too -- for a jazz approach particularly...the percussive tonal quality, vitality and immediacy of attack--provides more rhythmic grist to exploit and the more allure for me. I agree that the arch-top dola is especially effective in harmonic style idioms. I don't play a flat top much, if any--I as soon capo a larger body if not playing the arch top.

[Pete Jenner]

I'm also fascinated by Pete Jenner's 2-points. The sound clips hint at spectacular tone.

Jim, you are obviously a highly intelligent, very discerning man with a great ear who knows a great instrument when you hear it.

[Jim Nollman]

Pete, you are so obviously an astute and generous judge of character that I'm sure you'll consider sending this instrument to me straight away in trade for my endorsement.

[Pasha Alden]

At present I'm saving up for what I think will be a mandola of Max and Lauri, so each bonus stashed away nicely. <smile>

[CelticDude]

Check out a Girouard!

I would second this. I had a chance to play one last weekend while checking out mandolins. It's an A-style with f-holes. Sounded amazing, and it was gorgeous as well - a burgundy that showed the maple back and sides really well.

I note that Girouard just moved to Rhode Island, which puts them a bit closer to me anyway. Makes a visit a bit more practical, maybe even inevitable.

[Pete Jenner]

Pete, you are so obviously an astute and generous judge of character that I'm sure you'll consider sending this instrument to me straight away in trade for my endorsement.

It's a deal Jim if you pay the postage - it's $AUD3700. I'm wrapping it as we speak.

[Michael Bridges]

It's a deal Jim if you pay the postage - it's $AUD3700. I'm wrapping it as we speak.

My goodness, Pete!? What kind of postal service doya have down there? I'd heard that EVERYTHING in Australia can kill yo. Didn't know that also meant the gov. services!!!

[Mandobar]

Acousticmusic.org in Connecticut has an available new Girouard mandola right in your price range. Call them if you are interested. 203-458-2525. NFI

[Pete Jenner]

My goodness, Pete!? What kind of postal service doya have down there? I'd heard that EVERYTHING in Australia can kill yo. Didn't know that also meant the gov. services!!!

Mike, just between you and I, I probably wouldn't be the first person to make a small profit on postage - but don't tell Jim.

[CelticDude]

Acousticmusic.org in Connecticut has an available new Girouard mandola right in your price range. Call them if you are interested. 203-458-2525. NFI

Yes, that's the one I saw. And you should buy it, or I'll be tempted...

[Jim Nollman]

I have talked to Laurie Girouard about mandolas. They cost more than Pete Jenner's, although their shipping is a lot less.

The Girouard ice-blue color is especially enticing.

Both are on the list. As are s a few Collings that have recently come to my attention. And I really do like the sound of that JBovier on Youtube. Makes me want to ask a blatantly snobby question: if money wasn't an absolutely critical issue, who would gladly choose a less expensive JBovier (about $400 less) over a Collings if they had equally good sound?

I had a feeling this thread might make a few more readers look at mandolas anew. Join the club, CelticDude. Given your name, I can't think of a better choice for playing unison melodies with a fiddle.

[CelticDude]

Jim,

Although I really like the sound of the mandola, the idea of having to relearn the fingerings of all the tunes I know puts me off a bit. And I'm not quite sure I know what you mean about "unison melodies with a fiddle"; seems easier on a mandolin, where the tuning and thus fingerings are the same as on a fiddle?

ice-blue finish? Sounds fun! Any pictures? I didn't see this on the Girouard website.

[John L]

I play an old Levin - flat top with an oval hole. Sounds and plays great. If you find one, buy it!

[Jim Nollman]

CelticDude, you might find it easier to translate your mandolin finger memory onto a mandola, if you tune the mandola DAEB.

[CelticDude]

Jim,

Cool idea. Do you need to use slightly different string gauges (I ask, having no idea what "standard" gauges for a mandola are)?