Question about shape of sound hole on a Gibson A3

[bluegrass46]

I recently acquired a nice playing and sounding A3, probably a 1920 from what I've seen on mandolin archive. Looking closely I've noticed the sound hole is not perfectly round. The curve is a little off on the treble side. Is this common or is it a problem? Does it affect the value at all? It appears to just be carved this way. Is it just less than perfect workmanship perhaps? I've done a lot of reading but I am new to owning a vintage instrument so any info or educated opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[pfox14]

I'd like to see pix of the rest of the mando. Rosette doesn't look quite right either.

[sunburst]

I'd like to see pix of the rest of the mando. Rosette doesn't look quite right either.

I agree. The finish doesn't look quite right, and it may well have been refinished if not re-topped (which would explain the asymmetrical sound hole).

[bluegrass46]

The rosette is definitely off as well. Here are a few more pics that may be helpful. Thanks again.

[sunburst]

I'd have to look at that one to tell.
I haven't seen an old Gibson with an asymmetrical hole like that, and the rosette doesn't quite look right either. It sort of looks like the white paint was masked off of the rosette or something. I don't think it came from Gibson like that, but I don't know how it got that way. The rest of the top does not look refinished. Also, I can't see the back, sides, neck, or peghead, and I can't see inside, so I don't know if everything else looks Gibson-correct.
There are folks these days capable of refinishing and "faking" wear patterns and other finish aging effects, but it would surprise me if someone capable of "faking" the forearm and pick wear would not do a better job on the sound hole. Interesting...

[pfox14]

Can you post pix of the peghead? Maybe it's a fake.

[lenf12]

I'd have to look at that one to tell.
I haven't seen an old Gibson with an asymmetrical hole like that, and the rosette doesn't quite look right either. It sort of looks like the white paint was masked off of the rosette or something. I don't think it came from Gibson like that, but I don't know how it got that way. The rest of the top does not look refinished. Also, I can't see the back, sides, neck, or peghead, and I can't see inside, so I don't know if everything else looks Gibson-correct.
There are folks these days capable of refinishing and "faking" wear patterns and other finish aging effects, but it would surprise me if someone capable of "faking" the forearm and pick wear would not do a better job on the sound hole. Interesting...

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[mandroid]

Oh those Imperfect things made by fallible mankind

[Darryl Wolfe]

To me this looks fully original. I have not seen a mis-shapen soundhole, but it looks like a factory boo-boo.

The rosette was masked off and all that I have seen look the way this one does.

One thing that stands out to me is that the entire soundhole and rosette seem to be shifted to the left (looking at the picture), and possibly even rotated a tad bit

I do not see the requisite black binding inside the sound hole, but I think it's just blending in with the background

random A-3 for comparison


On the OP's pictures.....focus on just the rosette while gaging it's relationship to the fingerboard..

[jmp]

Here is a link to another A-3 for sale by a very reputable dealer.

http://www.gryphonstrings.com/instpix/41703/index.php

The sound hole and rosette do not look perfect on this one either.

Folks the Gibson "factory" was not a bunch of robots on an assembly line with laser guided cutting tools, it was a workshop with individual craftsman and there will be some variations and human "error" along with that. I had a Gibson ES-325 and the tail piece was screwed on about half and inch too far to the treble...




Bottom line: IMHO I'm guessing you have a genune Gibson A-3 "whiteface" with some "character"

[jmp]

To me this looks fully original...

I agree in spirit, but it looks like bridges have been replaced with adjustable ones in the @bluegrass46 A-3 and clearly so in the example photo you attached.

[Darryl Wolfe]

Yes bridge replaced..I was referring to the sound hole and finish per OP questi9on

[bluegrass46]

Sorry I dropped out of this thread for awhile but there's a newborn in the house. I really appreciate people taking time to look and share their wisdom. This mando is definitely all original. I never suspected it was a fake because I got it from a very knowledgeable person with a stellar reputation and everything about it is right. It spent some years in the attic and only had one owner before it came to me. It came with original case, tuners, pickguard, bridge (the bridge on there now is a Loar replica), and tailpiece. I just hadn't seen one with a misshapen sound hole like that. But I admittedly had only seen a handful of oval hole Gibsons in person, and never one with the white finish. The sound is certainly not affected. To my ears, and several others', this thing sounds exceptionally good with beautiful tone and plenty of volume. I've wanted an oval hole Gibson for a long time and I couldn't be happier than I am with this one.
Another curious thing about this mandolin is the top binding is different from the back binding. The top binding is a brownish color with a striped pattern while the back is the typical white. I looked at countless photos of these white mandolins on mandolin archive and elsewhere and the vast majority have matching ivory colored binding on both top and back. But I also found a few others with binding exactly like this one, including the one in the photo posted by Mr. Wolfe, where the brownish top binding is clearly visible and does not match the back. My best guess is they were out of the ivory binding when these were completed and used whatever was available. Any other theories? Thanks again to everyone for the input.

[Darryl Wolfe]

My best guess on the binding is......there was one batch of binding in this period that appears greenish. Most A-3 have it. Now if that binding looked different in 1920-23 than it does now, then it turned that brownish green color.

With that said, the binding could have looked nearly identical then, but the one from a certain batch turned color. Please post more pictures of your A-3

Here is an early Loar with binding from that small batch of stuff