Mixed Feelings...

[mrmando]

yea if you dont have proper grammar a lot of people like to chastise you cuz of it only because there grammar is perfect everytime they right a post or reply its really disrespectful to them they think and they would rather talk about that than contribute to your post

uh oh i didnt use proper grammar here they come!!

Anybody can make a grammatical mistake. But to rub everyone's noses in your own inability to communicate — that requires a spectacular lack of maturity.

[mandroid]

Wow long day 5 pages ..

Bill' s nice .. he has his voice through the Mandolin, had a career.. made recordings demi Icon..

I have what voice through mine, I have.. no career , rarely travel . ( not hermit, come on by )

as the Miles Davis tune title says, ... So What ?

[Nick Gellie]

Hi Mandolineer,

You should stay with this thread. I agree with you that Bill Monroe's mandolin playing is too straight and lacking in tonal variety on some his recordings. It lacks subtlety, change in tone and attack in his fast bluegrass numbers. Still, the man was a genius and a very influential musician. Look what he has done to make mandolin playing available to a great range of people. We could have otherwise been stuck with classical mandolin perhaps.

Yank Rachell and others helped established the blues mandolin genre. Yank had incredible talent and skill in making the mandolin accessible to black blues musicians. Given that bluegrass has in part its origins in the blues, Bill Monroe borrowed from various traditions to create the music that is today. We should not forget the influence of old-time musicians in keeping alive the tradition before Bill came along. It would be interesting to know if there more mandolinists playing old-time now than ever in the past.

I also agree that the modern mandolin players (e.g. Sam Bush, Dave Grisman, Chris Thile, Adam Steffey, John Reischman and a host of others) vary their playing and technique to create a wonderful dynamic and take Monroe's tunes and songs to another dimension. Here we have the legacy of Bill Monroe - he inspired others and is still inspiring many aspiring mandolinists to play and experience blues, bluegrass, and old-time. My mandolin playing has benefited from all these wonderful musicians, including Bill Monroe. I am very grateful for that.

Finally, there are better mandolin players than Bill. I do not denigrate him one iota - he was one of a kind.

[Pete Jenner]

( not hermit, come on by )

Free beer?

[Mike Crocker]

Different tastes make the arts and music world go around. I'm not a big Bill Munroe fan either. Some of his stuff is cool, but I'm more interested in other styles (classical, celtic, jazz) and other approaches to the instrument. Nevertheless, the man was an influence on the world and it's cool to borrow from him what suits us and leave the rest for others.

In other forums I've seen the same attitudes about Jimi Hendrix and other icons.

Peace.

[Jesse Harmon]

I've been trying to find a DVD of "Hail Hail Rock and Roll". I had a Beta tape years ago that got away from me. I was told last week when visiting the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland that it is not available anymore. Too bad, it's not only educational but a fun video to watch. thanks for posting.

[Tom Haywood]

Wow, Almeriastrings, that is the precise example of what I hoped to describe! Berry's technique on that slur is what makes the statement in that style of music. And he created that statement. Richards has a much smoother interpretation of it which is pretty much the way most folks play it now. The difference in the statement is obvious. It also seems obvious that Richards has no intention of playing it the way Berry does. Maybe he doesn't like it, maybe he can't get it, maybe he relishes the difference - who knows? Both ways are excellent, but Berry is the cause of what Richards and others are doing. And to my ear, Berry drives that nail a little bit truer. So it is IMO with Monroe and bluegrass mandolin, less with mandolin in other styles of music.

[Michael Bridges]

Well, at least you're not planning on taking up banjo!

I think we've all made our points. I'm taking a break from the forums for a while and will try to look at things in context and with a new perspective. Other than that, I think that this thread, like those before it, has performed its task--a sort of pondering out loud of something that has bugged me for a while, with input from various points of view--but I feel like the thread is in jeopardy of veering off-topic, into redundant circuits, or in a manner not unlike that portrayed in the above image, so you can continue to discuss other genres or what hasn't properly grammatical or some other oddities, but I'll leave this one be.

If I drop off the radar, it's because I'd like to try to not be "sloppy choppy" myself and need practice, more plucking and less clucking. And Dobro. I really want to play some Dobro...

--Tom

[Marty Henrickson]

I've been trying to find a DVD of "Hail Hail Rock and Roll". I had a Beta tape years ago that got away from me. I was told last week when visiting the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland that it is not available anymore. Too bad, it's not only educational but a fun video to watch. thanks for posting.

Jesse, I found it here. No financial interest.

[jmalmsteen]

Seriously?? If I wrote what I really thought here my account would get locked. And you preface the most obnoxious thing you can possibly say with a request for no "trolls." You sir make me want to avoid this site, not the other people you seem to have issues with. Let me guess your next post, "Gibson's suck," and then "bluegrass musicians should play A style mandolins."

[stevedenver]

Seriously?? If I wrote what I really thought here my account would get locked. And you preface the most obnoxious thing you can possibly say with a request for no "trolls." You sir make me want to avoid this site, not the other people you seem to have issues with. Let me guess your next post, "Gibson's suck," and then "bluegrass musicians should play A style mandolins."

And, I guess, imho, from the vitriolic tone, that is possibly why he made the preface. We all balk at the thought, "Everything you know is wrong". But I'm willing to bet theres a lot of things I "know" which I might be better educated on, or, even how others feel about things. This allows me to be a bit more attuned to how I will be received.

This is the internet, and one thing I have seen, is that people seem to communicate, sometimes a bit more aggressively than I would expect in person. In order to get the good things this site offers, and which its varied members offer, one has to have a bit of the ability to understand that the world is not homogenous.

I think it's ok to discuss topics that one doesn't agree with, with an open mind, and with tolerance, be it grammar, age, point of view, etc. Otherwise, its pretty hard to learn anything, or change in position, when communication stops.

[mandroid]

Originally Posted by mandroid
( not hermit, come on by )

Free beer?

Coming, here, from Australia ? , Ill go pick up a Case, after meeting you, arriving
in Town, on the Bus.

[jaycat]

Random musings:

I love the Chuck Berry comparisons. He was a genuine triple threat -- singer, writer and guitarist par excellence. And inventor of a genre (more or less).

I have never heard anyone say they didn't care for Robert Johnson's music. Or for that matter, didn't find it transcendent.

So let me get this straight wrt Bill Monroe -- he was a superior mandolinist (seems to be the general consensus) and he invented a genre of music. Not a bad legacy.

[sgarrity]

Monroe's style and one of his tunes being interpreted by modern players:



I can't get enough of this kind of playing. I listen to a lot of other music but always come back to this. The rhythmic drive combined with the blues just does it for me.

[Tom Coletti]

Seriously?? If I wrote what I really thought here my account would get locked. And you preface the most obnoxious thing you can possibly say with a request for no "trolls." You sir make me want to avoid this site, not the other people you seem to have issues with. Let me guess your next post, "Gibson's suck," and then "bluegrass musicians should play A style mandolins."

Well I'm having issues with you right now.

I request for no trolls because, despite my simple request and best efforts, here you are.

I don't feel comfortable on this site because of people like you. I AVOID this site because of people like you. I've seen the extremes of people who claim "Bill Monroe sucks, A styles all the way, Gibsons are overpriced shoeboxes," etc., but having never even stated my opinion on those, I'm wondering if you're just getting bitter at me for having mixed--MIXED, not fully negative--views of Monroe and then rather than discuss the points reasonably like we've been doing, you go straight for an ad hominem and non-sequitur and make me feel incredibly unwelcome based on a generalization with no evidence.

I've also seen stubborn bluegrass purists, Gibson snobs and F-scroll snobs. It goes both ways, but I never accuse people of this because you just can't tell most of the time without risking being completely wrong and stupid.

And for the most part, NOBODY should be concerned of posting their honest thoughts without their accounts being locked. If you are concerned that you words to me will be so offensive that moderators have to hide them, then consider how damaging your abuse of relative anonymity on the internet is.

But when it comes down to it, I'm abandoning the Cafe for good. At least in the Dobro world there's so few slide players in comparison that any and all resophonic representation of any styles and skill level is welcomed whole-heartedly. Nobody cares if you have a Dobro or a Regal or a Scheerhorn or a Cigar Box. Nobody cares if you prefer Douglas or Ickes or Hall or Auldridge. Steel body, metal body, roundneck, squareneck, it's all welcome with no fuss or superiority or suspicion or hostility. That's the kind of environment that I'd like to be in, so I'm leaving for it...

--Tom out.

[almeriastrings]

Finally, there are better mandolin players than Bill.

You know... that depends on your perspective. He was certainly the best 'Monroe style' mandolin picker there ever was, and ever will be...

Like Berry, Django...

The "Wizard of the Strings" (Roy Smeck) is now best remembered for vintage instruments named after him. Few remember his music... though he was technically brilliant. They'll remember Monroe, Chuck Berry, the Beatles, Doc, Hendrix, Django, Josh Graves and Earl, though....

[Pete Jenner]

Coming, here, from Australia ? , Ill go pick up a Case, after meeting you, arriving
in Town, on the Bus.

Excellent - I'll be there in November.

[Bmore Matt]

Well I'm having issues with you right now.

I request for no trolls because, despite my simple request and best efforts, here you are.

I don't feel comfortable on this site because of people like you. I AVOID this site because of people like you. I've seen the extremes of people who claim "Bill Monroe sucks, A styles all the way, Gibsons are overpriced shoeboxes," etc., but having never even stated my opinion on those, I'm wondering if you're just getting bitter at me for having mixed--MIXED, not fully negative--views of Monroe and then rather than discuss the points reasonably like we've been doing, you go straight for an ad hominem and non-sequitur and make me feel incredibly unwelcome based on a generalization with no evidence.

I've also seen stubborn bluegrass purists, Gibson snobs and F-scroll snobs. It goes both ways, but I never accuse people of this because you just can't tell most of the time without risking being completely wrong and stupid.

And for the most part, NOBODY should be concerned of posting their honest thoughts without their accounts being locked. If you are concerned that you words to me will be so offensive that moderators have to hide them, then consider how damaging your abuse of relative anonymity on the internet is.

But when it comes down to it, I'm abandoning the Cafe for good. At least in the Dobro world there's so few slide players in comparison that any and all resophonic representation of any styles and skill level is welcomed whole-heartedly. Nobody cares if you have a Dobro or a Regal or a Scheerhorn or a Cigar Box. Nobody cares if you prefer Douglas or Ickes or Hall or Auldridge. Steel body, metal body, roundneck, squareneck, it's all welcome with no fuss or superiority or suspicion or hostility. That's the kind of environment that I'd like to be in, so I'm leaving for it...

--Tom out.

See, this just isn't fair to the rest of us. There has been some good healthy conversation here in this thread, and I have enjoyed all the insights and comparisons. I really believe that you had that whole thing typed out in your head and you were just waiting for someone to give you a reason to throw it out there. I can't help but be reminded of a paraphrase of the many old sayings about what happens when you go looking for a fight. You will probably find one.

There was one person, just one, that matched your description. Because of this, you accuse the population of an entire website? That's just not fair. To be clear, there's a lot of your original point that I agree with. I'm not a "Monroe purist" by any means. I just don't think it's fair to lump all of the users of this website together and be so accusatory. (I mostly lurk here, but I have great respect for most of these folks and what I've learned from them)

You also say that things are better in the "Dobro world". While I agree somewhat with your original point, I think were are worlds apart on this viewpoint. I don't need to agree with the "mandolin world" I can't stop playing mandolin even if I wanted to. It's become a part of me, it speaks to me in a profound way.

My friend, please, don't judge every poster in this thread, indeed, every user of this forum by one response. You knew that the type of viewpoint existed that was the opposite of your own. You dug deep enough and you found it. I would just move on, agree to disagree and enjoy this website for the wonderful resource that it is. You have to be realistic about these things.

[Eric C.]

I've used many forums over the span of my internet usage and I am yet to see a thread starter not go down in flames when the original post starts with the first two paragraphs the original poster used.

Why do people expect a forum community to be sympathetic and agreeable with them when they begin with an insulting blanket statement about the residents of the community.

Forums are like communities or provinces in their own right, and are fiercely loyal to their "nation" or "home town" which is the forum.

[DataNick]

You know... that depends on your perspective. He was certainly the best 'Monroe style' mandolin picker there ever was, and ever will be...

Like Berry, Django...

The "Wizard of the Strings" (Roy Smeck) is now best remembered for vintage instruments named after him. Few remember his music... though he was technically brilliant. They'll remember Monroe, Chuck Berry, the Beatles, Doc, Hendrix, Django, Josh Graves and Earl, though....

Almeria,
Really appreciated that Chuck Berry/Keith Richards post/video.

I read that Chuck Berry was an absolute big fan of Bill Monroe...

[DataNick]

I've used many forums over the span of my internet usage and I am yet to see a thread starter not go down in flames when the original post starts with the first two paragraphs the original poster used.

Why do people expect a forum community to be sympathetic and agreeable with them when they begin with an insulting blanket statement about the residents of the community.

Forums are like communities or provinces in their own right, and are fiercely loyal to their "nation" or "home town" which is the forum.

Kinda like coming into Raider Nation with a "Go Steelers" sign?

[Jesse Harmon]

I learned a lot from this thread since I have not listened to much Monroe and all the discussion and videos was a good primer. As far as the digressions and side roads, they bring dividends also as I just picked up a dvd I had looked for and couldn't find as a result of someone here. Still can't figure why I couldn't find it before. The guy in Cleveland told me it was one of their top sellers and they were not able to get them. ?????

[allenhopkins]

Start a thread by saying you think you'll attract trolling, dollars to doughnuts you'll get at least one troll-like post.

Some folks can't help rising (or sinking) to the challenge.

I thought OP showed a bit of a chip on his shoulder in the first post. Kind of addressed the issue in Post #29. What we were discussing-arguing-whatever about, was people's personal preferences -- whether they liked Bill Monroe's mandolin style, or not. You can't win (or lose) an argument of that nature.

A lot of effort and prose creation, and some interesting digressions, plus a lot of YouTube vids. Anyway, it's the weekend, and I gotta break out the bass fiddle and play for a Civil War re-enactors' dance. Hope y'all have a good day; heat's broken here, and perhaps the "heat" in this thread as well…

[DataNick]

... Anyway, it's the weekend, and I gotta break out the bass fiddle and play for a Civil War re-enactors' dance. Hope y'all have a good day; heat's broken here...

Allen,

That sounds waaay cool (the re-enactor's dance)...I've seen one of those here where they actually had a kind of brass band a-la John Phillips Sousa. Sounds like a great time!...My mom in Philly told me this morning it's still hot/humid..hope the weather pattern breaks down there as well.

Take Care!

[Jim]

Every musician needs to have their own "sub genre" thus eliminating the " that is or isn't Bluegrass, Rock, Country or Irish trad. Because that ain't the way XYZ played it. I'm thinking of claiming NuevoBlueReggaeFolkGrassRock, If you all don't know someone else who's already done it.