Help with mounting Bartlett Mic

[Steve Cantrell]

Howdy all. Hope I can appeal for assistance from some of you guys who regularly mic your instruments. My Old Time band has gotten heavily involved with doing Contra dances, so much so that we decided to do away with the play-into-the-mic method we had been using and went to Bartlett mics. It is basically a small condensor that sits over the sound hole using the clip show. The problem I am running into is that the weight of the cable tends to make the clip-on arm drag the mic away from the soundhole. Since the mic isn't attached to the arm, I am wondering if there isn't some better solution for doing this. A clip I can put near the soundhole maybe? I don't want to harm the instrument, that much is certain, so I am hoping someone has some firsthand experience with a product along those lines. Any help would be appreciated.

[Don Grieser]

Is the cable just hanging down? If so, I'd try making a loop of the whole mic cable and connector and stuffing that in your back pocket. You could fasten a bit of it to the gooseneck arm too with some twist ties. Just give yourself enough slack for when you start the Sam Bush moves.

[Steve Cantrell]

Lol, I am just eaten up with the white-guy-bend-at-the-waist moves. It really only takes the slightest downward pressure to cause the arm to start to tilt. The Bartlett website recommends putting some felt under the clip at the tailpiece, but with the James tailpiece on there the clip is open about as wide as you can open it already. The mic is almost of the same variety newscasters wear. I wonder if a clip similar to the ones you would put on your clothes would allow you to just clip it to the top...without damaging the mandolin. I keep thinking about the way Thile's Dudenbostel looks around the soundholes from clipping mics there.

[Tom Wright]

Standard strain relief practice would be to run the cable over the endpin and under your strap, so a downward pull (hanging cable) becomes an upward tug, or no tug at all if the cable is gripped well at the strap/endpin join. (Leave some slack.) I always do this when playing electric instruments---it's not a good idea to make it possible to unplug by stepping on your cable. It also protects the connectors. If you aren't using a strap you could run the cable under the strings behind the bridge.

My preferred microphone mount would be the bar clamp available with some mics, like the DPA 4099 or AKG 518. This spans the body and is robust as well as safe for the finish. But cable run is important to take care of for all mics or pickups.

[Steve Cantrell]

Oh, and to finish my thought--I did try bundling the cable up and that seemed to help, but if I shifted away the clip went. This might take some creative arrangement, I think.

[foldedpath]

Like Tom said, I think your first step should be arranging a strain relief using the mandolin's endpin as an anchor point.

I would tape the mic cable to the gooseneck between the capsule and alligator clip (similar to the way an Audio Techica ATM350's cable works), then tie off a loop of cable to the endpin. That may or may not stop the gooseneck from shifting as you play, but at least you're covered if you step on the cord.

Another approach would be to get a Tone Gard for the mandolin, and use that as an attachment point. I did that with my ATM350 before I got a DPA 4099. Attach the alligator clip to one of the Tone Gard bars behind the mandolin, and bend the gooseneck up in a "U" shape around the lower side of the mandolin, with the mic pointing at the lower end of the F hole.

Either way, strain relief is essential. I always tie off the cable of my 4099 on the endpin, unless I'm going wireless.

[Doug Edwards]

It looks similar to my Silver Bullet. I place the arm between the rim and my Tonegard with the cord running through my strap as other have described. You could also make a clamp on holder secured with Viola hardware.

[mandobassman]

This is a setup I have for my upright bass. I also used a very similar setup on mandolin several years ago and it worked very well. You would have to find some way to mount the mic to a tie clip. You also may be able to purchase a tie clip mic holder from a manufacturer that makes tie clip mics. When I used it for mandolin, I had the cord from the mic go into the F hole and attach to a end pin jack. You have to be careful to put something, such as a piece of cloth, between the clip and the wood so it doesn't scratch. It worked very nicely for me at the time.

Here is a picture of my bass setup. Same idea.

[Doug Edwards]

A thousand words, my setup & Mr Thile's set up using an armrest.

[Steve Cantrell]

Thanks for the suggetions, guys. I am investigating the tie clip angle. For you guys who actually put the mic down into the soundhole, do you find that causes any problems with the sound? I know conventional wisdom seems to say that the note "blooms" once it leaves the soundhole. I just wonder if having it below the edge of the top would hamper that in any way.

[mtucker]

i wouldn't hesitate taking the inside the sound hole route, but keep the mids up and lows and highs down

[foldedpath]

WRT placing the mic capsule down inside the soundhole, I've never liked that approach with any instrument, at least not as the sole source (I do have a classical guitar that uses a Baggs dual source backplane mic inside the guitar, but the tone is blended with an undersaddle pickup that alleviates some of the unnatural tone).

Inside the body cavity, a mic picks up more body airmass resonance than anything else, which can make it sound "woofy" or "boxy" (take your pick of silly adjectives). It just doesn't sound natural, like it does with an external mic. It can also lower your available gain before feedback, since the primary body/airmass resonance frequency is one of the first candidates for taking off into feedback.

That said, it's easy enough to try it and see how you like it!

[Tim2723]

I've had mixed luck with putting mics inside things. It worked pretty well for a harp once, but that was the rare exception for me. You can try it without harm though.

I have to say that the mount for that microphone is the worst design I've seen in a long time. Unless you deal with the strain from the cable there's no way that will ever stay put. Even if you use a different clip you'll still need to handle the strain issues.

[mandobassman]

Thanks for the suggetions, guys. I am investigating the tie clip angle. For you guys who actually put the mic down into the soundhole, do you find that causes any problems with the sound? I know conventional wisdom seems to say that the note "blooms" once it leaves the soundhole. I just wonder if having it below the edge of the top would hamper that in any way.

When I used this setup for my mandolin, the mic was down inside the f hole just the same as I have in my bass now. It sounded great and the rejection to external noises was much better. I am a member of a bass forum and many of the bassists say the same thing about mounting the mic inside the instrument. They all say it's the worst place to mic an instrument, but the quality of sound I'm getting says otherwise. It was the same for my mandolin. What I loved best was I could leave it mounted all the time and since I had the wire going to a end pin jack all I had to do was plug in, just like a pick up only the sound was better. Much better!

[mandobassman]

I have to say that the mount for that microphone is the worst design I've seen in a long time. Unless you deal with the strain from the cable there's no way that will ever stay put. Even if you use a different clip you'll still need to handle the strain issues.

Which mount are you referring to?

[Tom Wright]

The gooseneck is the complaint. But the user manual for this mic says "1. Attach one end of the supplied Mic Clip onto the tailpiece or pickguard, trapping the cable to act as a strain relief..." (emphasis added).

I had been thinking of a bar-clamp mounted AKG but after checking the Bartlett site I ordered a soundhole version, specifically the one that has an incorporated belt-mount phantom power and output transformer. So you just plug in a 1/4" cable and use any amp that would sound ok with a mike.

I remembered how, in my 70s rock band, we got nice a sound and decent gain above feedback by mounting an omnidirectional lavalier mic (EV) inside the soundhole of our Martin 00-18.

[Curt Palm]

I just got a Bartlett mike for my oval hole, so I purchased Bartlett's guitar mike. It has a clip that attaches to the side of the sound hole. You can buy the clip alone on Bartlett's website for $10.00 I believe. I've not tried it with a band yet, but I've tested it & it sounds good and attaches to my mandolin securely and easily. There should enough room in a f-hole for the clip & the mike.

[Steve Cantrell]

Somehow I missed the guitar clip, Curt. Thanks for the heads up on that.

[Bruce Bartlett]

The latest Bartlett Mandolin Mic has a felt-covered "Mando Clip" which clips onto an f-hole and securely holds the mic just outside the f-hole. The cable wraps around the endpin for strain relief. The Mando Clip is slightly different from the Guitar Clip, which holds a Guitar Mic inside a sound hole. Hope this helps.

http://www.bartlettmics.com/mandolinmic.html

Somehow I missed the guitar clip, Curt. Thanks for the heads up on that.

[Steve Cantrell]

Thanks Bruce. I will be ordering one shortly.

[Teak]

I am bumping this post to the present to see if anyone can give feedback on the Bartlett mic with either an f-hole or an oval-hole mandolin.

[almeriastrings]

I have seen one, and one only... with a musician who was passing through these parts about a year ago.

As far as I could tell, this is just a generic lavalier mic with a very clumsy mounting system. There is none - zero - mechanical isolation. This is not good.

If you look at well-designed fiddle/mandolin mounts they do include this function, because it is very important. It removes a lot of subsonic 'rumble' at source. This removes the need to filter it out later, electronically - which has a number of unwanted consequences. The Audio Technica, DPA and even the cheap (European) Thomann 'Ovid' mounts all have respectable levels of mechanical isolation. The Bartlett mic has none whatsoever.

They are omnidirectional only. There are pros and cons to this. However, it is not the best choice when dealing with 'difficult' acoustic environments or high stage sound levels. I'd always recommend a cardiod or hypercardiod for live use, unless there are convincing reasons otherwise.

I would recommend going with a well-established system of known performance for which detailed specifications are freely available, and which comes with a high-grade isolation mount. $179 is not far off what you can grab an AT PRO-35 for. These also hold resale value very well.

[mandroid]

just thinking .. surrounded by a block of windscreen foam you may be able to put it IN the F hole
then gaffers tape the cord down and fit a strain relief using the strap Peg .

[surdopickups]

hello everyone,
I state that they are not a commercial enterprise, in fact, build a few pickups a year and occasionally.
I wanted to introduce you to the magnetic pickups for mandolin that I build, the unique characteristics.
height 3 mm
neodymium magnets
impedance <300 ohms
balanced output
to request output jack impedance 1 kohm

http://surdopickups.blogspot.it/2014...mandolino.html



the same model for guitar has a length greater

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=0QaHpTYMY6c




thank you all for your attention

[MysTiK PiKn]

I think I could handle one short wire and a mic outside the body - but these other wires, and battery boxes, and pre-amps with wires all over the place - - that's one messy accident waiting to happen.

Mount it all inside and run wires to a strap button that takes a 1/4" plug - job done.
And just one short wire outside for the mic only.
This is not too easy to do on an F-mando - but a good plan would work better than wires everywhere to trip over.

I think it's all over-priced too. But I don't have a known good option for a better mic. I don't think this is it. That clip will break eventually, or take a bite out of the mando finish, if not worse. There's too much worry w this rig. It's like Mickey Mouse.