Stage nerves... how do you deal with it?

[Paul Kotapish]

On the beta-blocker thing... when do you take it in relation to the performance, and how long does it last?

Worth noting again: Before you consider taking any prescription medicine, confer with your doctor!

Beta blockers do help many cope with stage fright, but they are no substitute for sufficient practice--alone and with the group--and mental preparation, relaxation techniques, and all the other disciplines that comprise professional stagecraft.

That said, the anecdotal consensus seems to be that a low dose (10-40 MG, depending on body mass, individual response, etc.) take 30 minutes before the show should do the trick. The effective time frame is typically three hours.

[SincereCorgi]

On the beta-blocker thing... when do you take it in relation to the performance, and how long does it last?

Sounds like I'm asking about that little diamond-shaped blue pill, but I'm not.

What's funny about the beta blockers is that they don't actually feel like anything– you're not hazy or relaxed, you just find that you're not getting the shakes and you can execute onstage about as well as you can in the practice room. I suspect this is what most people with more typical physiology feel like on stage all the time. Medical science hasn't provided us yet with a talent steroid.

[terzinator]

Thanks for the info on the timeframes and such, and I'd definitely talk to my doc before doing anything...

Practice doesn't always matter, unfortunately. I'll be at a lesson, and I'll play something I've played 1000 times at home, and the fact that I'm now "performing" instead of "practicing" is the stress-maker. I feel it in my right hand, mostly, where what was a nice, fluid motion becomes halting and jerky and overthought. And the tone sucks because my fretting hand is clueless and unsure about what the picking hand is doing.

Even last night, just getting together with my bandmates... was just running through a few fiddle tunes at the beginning, and I could feel the nerves, because there was a sense of "performing" or maybe "proving something." Like, "I woodshedded this at home, let me show you!" By mid-rehearsal, after a couple of beers, it was all happy happy. But the first 30-45 minutes, yuck.

The parallels between playing mandolin and playing golf... I have lost count, there are so many!

[Dan Hulse]

Live the gig, don't just survive it.[/QUOTE]

I like that one Bertram.
I'm going to write that one down and share it.
It would make a great case sticker.
Thanks!

[Justus True Waldron]

Lots of good advice in this thread, but I didn't see the one thing that helps me the most.... hearing myself!!! I've played a lot of different gigs on a lot of different instruments, but this seems particularly important on mandolin. I also tend to play mandolin with a lot of the delicate hammer-on/pull off doo dads, which tend to be quieter. If I am having to struggle to hear what I'm doing, it all starts to fall apart. I am first and foremost a jazz clarinet player, and I've been playing long enough to be comfortable on that no matter where or what I'm playing. However, a clarinet is also a lot louder comparatively, especially to acoustic instruments, and I never have to worry about hearing myself. On mandolin it's a whole other story, and I went through a few fairly torturous gigs before I started to figure this out. Once the fear starts to kick in, it's a cyclical problem: Fear makes the fingers lock up and sweat which makes the strings sticky which makes you play worse which brings more fear. I've learned to just break the cycle by smiling and forcing myself not to care... it's not always easy but it does start to make a difference. I've learned now though that if I make sure I can hear myself really well, I'll often never start getting into that fear pattern in the first place and the whole thing is so much more enjoyable. I don't know what your PA system is like or if you use a mic or pickup, but what I started doing was micing for the PA but using a pickup into a little personal amp on stage, pointed at my face. I soon retired this and started using in ear monitors... for me, that made all the difference. Now I can hear all my little twinkly bits at full volume, the audience hears nothing different, and I don't have to stress out. Another thing I've done that helped me get over my fear was seeking out and jamming with all the pro musicians I can. It kind of started by accident, but after a couple of times jamming at fests with musicians I've grown up listening too, I realized they didn't look like they wanted to punch me after! Now I'm rarely intimidated jamming with people (or at least I'm better at controlling it when I am). Also, things got a lot better once I got my new hand made mando... it's louder, and easier to play, and helped give me just that little extra bit of confidence. In the end, it's a whole combination of things that add up... but just remember it's supposed to be fun, so have fun, don't take things too seriously, and look around at your band mates on stage, smile and be comfortable and it will translate to your audience! Good luck

[sidewinder]

Neat thread , and a lot of good stuff. Basically it's like playing a ball game. Practice the way you will play, and have more than one play in the playbook. I find the predetermined breaks are harder than just winging it, however know where you need to start from a position perspective. Nerves are good, they mean you care, they mean you are plugged in to the situation, however a lot of this will go away with experience. Allow yourself to make mistakes like everyone does ! Half the time the audience is clueless, and what you consider a disaster was nothing to them. Never let them see you sweat. When you walk out there, own it, and then sell it. Any of the techniques mentioned here can work, it depends on you. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bull. One day you'll look back at these early days and reflect on how great it was to be nervous ! Kind of like a first date !

[Steve Davis]

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[Bertram Henze]

Lots of good advice in this thread, but I didn't see the one thing that helps me the most.... hearing myself!!!

I guess that's a requirement that's so taken for granted that nobody mentioned it. Nobody can play without hearing himself, and yes, trying to do the impossible is cordless bungee jumping.

[Paul Kotapish]

I actually think that a lot of problems derive from too much emphasis on hearing oneself on stage. Certainly you need to have a basic level of your own instrument/voice in the mix, but during the course of the performance, you really should be focusing on listening to the other members of the band more than yourself.

If you listen too intently to yourself and focus exclusively on what you are playing, there will be a tendency to get out of synch with the band, which will lead to a cycle of adjustments and distraction that can lead to a downward spiral of confidence.

You should know your parts--or be able to improvise--so well that you play under the the worst and most distracting conditions, and then put your real energy at the gig into play WITH the band and staying as tight with the groove as possible. If you are in that mindset, it will be a lot easier to stay calm and relaxed when it's time to solo than if you are turning inward when the spotlight is on you.

Whenever I start to worry that I might be getting in over my head during a solo on stage, I just focus on the rhythm section and listen to what they are doing and simplify my own stuff to fit in. It usually works.

[Paul Kotapish]

I'm not sure this has been addressed already in any detail, but a big challenge that can lead to nerves is making that transition from playing rhythm--chopping chords on the offbeat, for example--to playing lead.

You need a whole different set of small-motor skills to play solos than you do for chopping chords, and making that leap can also throw you off.

Develop some transitional rhythm parts that you can play as you work your way into your solo spot, so that when the top of the solo comes around you are already in position and ready to play single-string lines or double stops or however you want to start your part.

One trick I use is to just go to a double-time drone on the tonic of whatever chords are happening in the bar or two before I have to make the switch. That keeps a sound going so there isn't an obvious drop out, and if I start two measures out, I can turn that into a lead-in line during the cadence preceding the start of my solo.

You wouldn't want to do that every single time you take a lead, but it might help get you over some particularly rough spots.

[JonZ]

Imagine that you are only wearing your underwear.

One small thing that has helped me to be more relaxed at jam sessions is to practice as loudly at home as I want to perform in public. Since I often practice at night and early morning, I was holding back, and not really practicing as I intended to perform. Making a volume adjustment at jams, that I had not practiced, caused tension.

Now I close a few more doors and practice at performance volume.

[jsphrdvs]

Man, I can really empathize with this post. I'm 41 and started playing mandolin about 3 years ago. I practice weekly, but not as much as I should. My neighbor and her co-workers formed jug band a while back and they were glad to welcome me aboard a few months ago. I had my first gig in December and was very nervous. I let my mandolin stay turned down pretty low, so that I did not offend the audience with my mistakes, but that in itself was a mistake. I couldn't hear myself very well and that led to more mistakes in my playing. I had my second gig this past weekend and it went much better. For one, I had the first gig under my belt and that helped. Secondly, I turned up my mandolin and it really helped me to hear myself along with the rest of my band. And thirdly, I just tried to have more fun with it. I got in the groove, played along and let the chips fall where they may.

Part of the problem is that I am my own worst critic by far. My wife tells me that the audience doesn't notice the mistakes that I notice and I believe that to be true except for maybe the other players in the crowd and I'm hoping they understand more than anyone.

I recently got turned on the Colorado Bluegrass Society and I am going to get more involved in their bluegrass jams and hope I get more comfortable with playing with multiple people and in front of multiple people. I'm also going to try to practice more. There is no substitute for knowing the material inside out like many people suggested. I might explore the beta-blockers. I have nothing against them, although I would rather just be more confident in my playing.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

J.D.

[Markus]

Practice doesn't always matter, unfortunately. I'll be at a lesson, and I'll play something I've played 1000 times at home, and the fact that I'm now "performing" instead of "practicing" is the stress-maker. I feel it in my right hand, mostly, where what was a nice, fluid motion becomes halting and jerky and overthought. And the tone sucks because my fretting hand is clueless and unsure about what the picking hand is doing.
--snip--
But the first 30-45 minutes, yuck.

I know exactly what you're talking about here, my issues are either with a jerky right hand or poor right-left synching.

When I talked to a bandmate about it, his wise question was `What are you doing to warm up?' ... making me realize that I didn't do anything to warm up that way ... and my practice earlier in the day normally focuses on our newer songs or soloing. If this is a problem you ID regularly ... it should be the focus of your warmup.

Since then, I've taken to trying to wedge in some metronome practice early in the day before a gig - as well as arriving early to gigs and spending an extra 5 minutes getting my picking both precise and loose.

Now I'm just frustrated by that the first 15 minutes, not 30-45.

FWIW, I've found replicating my performance situation when practicing quite helpful. My regular gig is sitting, and experience has taught me if I don't practice standing up in the next weeks I'm not going to play my best [be as nerve-free, focus as well] at next months stand-up gig.

I am uncertain if shining lights in your eyes while standing in a cramped space is something I'm going to replicate at home ... but practicing as I perform means all I need to do is close my eyes and listen and it's exactly like home.

[mandolinlee]

Here's some things to consider: The group I helped form w/ three other players were able to set aside one night a week to practice and play. After several months of this, we got asked to play for a public function. Quite frankly, it was a disaster. We were all nervous, couldn't hear ourselves or the others, made mistakes, had stage fright, you all know what I'm saying. The next week at practice we decided where everybody would stand, that we would stand to practice, that we would get a well rehearsed song set, decide who would MC, etc. After that whether practicing, playing a house party or "on stage" we always took the same positions. That was over 35 years ago and we still play every Thursday night, somewhere, and always in the same positions, although we now have 3 guys on chairs w/ 3 guys in a second row.

Some other things that help overcome stage fright: Toastmasters, Dale Carnegie Courses (NFI), taking offices in Churches, Lodges, Local Governments, school boards, etc. that require you to get up and express yourself. There is no better teacher than experience!

Good luck, keep trying, it becomes easier.
Lee

[Markus]

If you listen too intently to yourself and focus exclusively on what you are playing, there will be a tendency to get out of synch with the band, which will lead to a cycle of adjustments and distraction that can lead to a downward spiral of confidence.

This rings really true after my experience a week ago when we had a drummer sit in with my regular group [which lacks one]. Even with my amp turned up 40% louder than usual I couldn't hear myself very well and found it harder to hear my bandmates. So I had to listen harder to hear everyone ... better listening = very good.

I also feel like hearing not as well [while frustrating] also moved me out of self-analysis-mode - I was playing, not listening-while-playing. I have no doubt I played as many wrong notes as usual - but I didn't hear them all standing out in stark relief. Instead of hearing the clunkers, my confidence was high and I 'went for it'.

I got more compliments on my playing that night than I have in the course of months, and it's changed my impression of whether I need the perfect sound I previously felt necessary. Sometimes hearing perfectly allows us to hear our mistakes just as well as we do at home practicing ... I'm not sure performance is best suited with the `critique while playing mode' l fall into during practice.

[Bertram Henze]

I also feel like hearing not as well [while frustrating] also moved me out of self-analysis-mode - I was playing, not listening-while-playing. I have no doubt I played as many wrong notes as usual - but I didn't hear them all standing out in stark relief. Instead of hearing the clunkers, my confidence was high and I 'went for it'.

This strongly resembles the Joo Janta 2000 Peril-sensitive Sunglasses decribed in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe: The glasses are normally clear, but in danger they turn utterly black to prevent you from seeing anything that might alarm you...

The question remains: if you didn't hear much of your playing, did the audience hear it? and what were their compliments based on? maybe not hearing it was what they liked?

[Markus]

Bertram, they could hear .... Drums were not amplified so I just plain couldn't hear myself. I am using piezos, so sitting directly in front my amp can lead to howls at volume like that.

As I have had 6 months, weekly, of your average uninvolved bar crowd, 5 compliments in a night might have have used all of they plan to give in 2012 [based on experience].

[Bertram Henze]

5 compliments in a night might have have used all of they plan to give in 2012 [based on experience].

I don't know about a fixed budget of compliments. Musical performance works like an addictive drug: you get compliments only while your playing improves (i.e. by increasing the dose on the same crowd). Being constantly good on any level wears down the effect and you have to improve again or change the crowd.

And there's a positive feedback cycle: getting better earns you the chance of changing the crowd more often, until in the end you wake up in a hotel room in Sydney, searching the fridge for a bottle of orange juice you put there the other night in a different room in Tokyo...

[Markus]

And there's a positive feedback cycle: getting better earns you the chance of changing the crowd more often, until in the end you wake up in a hotel room in Sydney, searching the fridge for a bottle of orange juice you put there the other night in a different room in Tokyo...

If the whole world had some brandy and a couple beers like my crowd did, we would all seem more charming, better looking, and enjoyable musicians.

If the band and the bartender are the only sober people in the room, the music tends to get a whole lot better. Or so the crowd thinks.

While I like a strong IPA to sip on stage, I've come to rely on a large glass of water right next to that beer. A little alcohol seems to help, and if I drink water at the same rate as beer then limited bathroom breaks keep my beer consumption moderate at most.

[Paul Kotapish]

I was backstage at one of those great Stephane Grappelli/David Grisman shows decades back, and Grappelli downed a half tumbler of good scotch just before walking on stage--"to calm ze nerves."

I wouldn't recommend that "liquid-courage" approach, though, until you can play as well as Grappelli did.

[Bertram Henze]

I wouldn't recommend that "liquid-courage" approach, though...

Ms Winehouse could say something on this matter - oops.

[yankees1]

Stay off of it! Don't want the audience to waste good tomatoes !

[carojester]

I get wicked stomach cramps when I'm nervous! what do you do about that??

One thing that helps me on stage is to focus on my breathing. Anytime I tighten up or start to struggle I'm usually holding my breath so I refocus on breathing nice and deep and slow. I also focus on just enjoying the song, and choosing a tempo that is perhaps slightly slower than I would normally choose.

I'm very new to performing on a stage. I get scared but I also really get a boost from it. The audience at our local folk clubs is always supportive.

cheers
Caroline

[terzinator]

UPDATE (if you care!)

Well, as luck would have it, it was time for my annual physical, so I asked my doc about Beta Blockers... told him we play once or twice a month, that I get stage nerves, etc... He's not one to prescribe fun stuff (I've tried! [insert winky emoticon here]), so I wouldn't have been surprised if he would have just said "deal with it."

But he was really supportive, and didn't think it unreasonable at all to give them a try.

Well, I went to a fiddle-tune jam last night, where I normally would have jitters. It's not a gig, per se, but it's performing in front of others, so it's similar. And I figured it would be a good place to, um, "experiment." (As opposed to trying them for the first time before a gig, and getting a bad reaction or whatever.)

Well, I can say that the Beta Blocker worked for me. Normally tight and halting and thinking too much, I just played. Smooth and clean as if I were in my basement office practicing on my own. Didn't feel any different at all; it was how it SHOULD feel. Just normal and not nervous. Sure, I made mistakes, but they didn't compound into more and more stress. I just moved on and kept playing and had fun.

So, anyway, thanks to those who suggested I look into it. I'm not recommending this approach, nor am I saying it will work for everyone... just sharing my experience.

[Bertram Henze]

I'm not recommending this approach, nor am I saying it will work for everyone... just sharing my experience.

It would have been most interesting to have a blind test, say, your doctor phoned you the next day to say "sorry I prescribed the wrong stuff, it's just a placebo but did it work anyway?"