Buzz 1st Fret, Going Crazy

[djc227]

I just bought a new Kentucky mandolin and it sound amazing with the exception being that it has a nast buzz at the first fret of ONLY the G string. The rest of the mando plays amazing and it sounds great. I've been researching and toying with the bridge trying to get that buzz out but nothing seems to work. I held the string down between the 2nd and 3rd fret to see if it was touching the first fret and it was not. I have no idea what to do and it's driving me crazy. I can't stand playing an instrument with a buzz in it and there isn't a luthier within 3 1/2 hours of here. I also hate to spend $80 on an action set for just one little fret. If anyone has any ideas I would be extremely grateful. Thanks in advance.

Dylan

[Gene Korte]

djg227,


It's frustrating to have a buzz. Could be any number of things. First, check the obvious: Look at the tailpiece cover to be certain the string(s) isn't touching. I have a KENTUCKY and had to put a little upward bend in the tailpiece cover to clear the strings. And make sure the little piece of felt is in position. Good luck.

[Bill Snyder]

Read http://mimf.com/buzzfaq.htm. Also go to http://frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/...buzzintro.html

[sunburst]

Do you mean the G strings buzz when fretted at the 1st fret?
...or do you mean that the G strings buzz against the 1st fret when played open?

I ask because you say a buzz at the first fret, indicating the former, but you say you pressed the string down between the 2nd and 3rd frets to check 1st fret clearance, indicating the later.

[djc227]

It buzzes on the first fret when played open. I took the tailpiece cover off just to make sure. There is no buzz when fretted anywhere on the G strings, only when played open. I'm a little worried it's a nut issue

[sunburst]

Open string buzzing against the first fret is usually a nut problem, and in general, it indicates nut slots that are cut too low. If it is a new mandolin, that's unlikely... that is, a new mandolin in the price range of a Kentucky, those usually have strings a little high in the nut slots. If it is new, and if you already checked the slot height of both G strings by pressing them down between the 2nd and 3rd frets and both checked out good, it's probably a nut slot that is improperly cut so that the string is buzzing like a sitar in the slot itself. Try alternately damping one of the G strings and plucking the other. If it is only one doing the buzzing, pop it out of the nut slot and examine the slot with a magnifying glass. You can normally see where the string contacts the nut slot, and if the contact area does not extent all the way to the front edge of the nut, the slot needs to be touched up with a nut file of the appropriate size.
It could also just be a piece of junk of some kind in the slot, under the string, and cleaning the slot may fix it.

[djc227]

Well I got the magnifying glass out and it is not vibrating against the first fret. It is definitely something on the nut. As you mentioned before I think the string ( both of the G strings) are vibrating in the nut itself. Is there any non-luthier way to fix this?

[sunburst]

The thing is, the bottom of the nut slot should be straight, not curved, as it follows a path that is roughly half the angle of the strings as they break over the nut. In other words, the string should reach the nut, bend across front edge of the nut, follow the straight nut slot, then bend about the same amount again across the back edge of the nut and go to the tuner post. That way, the string is held solidly to the edge of the nut front and back so it doesn't buzz where it is loose in the end of the slot. The slot should also be round-bottomed so that the string fits in the bottom of the slot, and should be pretty close to the size of the string. Too wide and the string can buzz side to side, too small or V-shaped, and the string can bind in the slot. So, you need a tool that can cut a round bottomed slot the same size as the G string or very slightly bigger, and it needs to be able to cut the slot in a straight line from the front edge to the back edge of the nut. Most non-luthiers don't have a good tool to do that, but if you take it to a luthier for a set up, checking and adjusting the nut (all the slots) is part of that.

In "emergency" situations, I've "fixed" nut slots to get rid of buzz with my pocket knife. We're talking festival, field picking party, something like that where the buzz needed to go away before the instrument could make it to the shop. If you're handy with tools, a little careful work with a small blade might do it, but do as little as possible so the chance is good that there is still plenty of nut material to "fix it right" later.

[djc227]

Thanks guys. I've managed to male it better by using a small file from a Swiss army knife and lightly running it through the groove. I raised the bridge a little also and it is much less noticeable now. Further suggestions are appreciated but it is at least tolerable now.

[multidon]

Since you were able to improve it I believe you have diagnosed the problem. But the problem is still there, just more "tolerable". The best solution may be to spring for a new nut. Another, less expensive solution for the offending slot is to pack the slot with bone dust or baking soda, CAREFULLY (with adjacent parts of the mandolin masked off and protected) drop some superglue on it, let it cure, then re-cut the slot using the appropriate nut file. You would have to buy a real nut file that cuts a proper round bottom slot like John says, there is no hardware store substitute. Stew Mac and LMI both sell them. If you have some lutherie experience and the Kentucky is one of the less expensive models it might be worth trying to do yourself. If it is a more expensive model or you don't feel you have the skills it should go to a luthier, and if it were mine I would go ahead and get the nut replaced. I would not consider it unusual to have to get work like this done on a relatively inexpensive imported instrument. Most people who buy them should really expect to have to put a little work into them. Another thought- if the problem is that the slot is too big and the string is buzzing in the slot, have you thought of trying a heavier gauge G string that may fill the slot more completely?

[djc227]

Well, I couldn't stand even a little buzz so I fixed it! I ended up taking the end of the G string that was cut off when I put the new strings on and ran it back and forth in a sawing motion through the nut slot. The theory being that it should make a groove exactly the same size as the string that was on the instrument. Anyway, it worked and the buzz is gone. I thought this might be useful information if someone runs into the same problem. Thanks for all the help. You guys are the best!

[multidon]

Dylan- I happy you found a simple and elegant solution that worked for you. That trick of using a wound string as a nut file is something I've heard before but didn't think of. You are lucky it was the G string giving you trouble. That trick doesn't work on a solid string! Anyway, good for you. Enjoy your new mandolin, now buzz free!