Help identifying old mandolin

[michaelpthompson]

Hanging around an Irish Trad session last week, and a lady pulled this out of a case, saying it had belonged to her grandmother, but she didn't know anything else about it. I told her my knowledgeable friends at the Mandolin Café would very likely be able to supply some information. Thanks in advance.

[MikeEdgerton]

Call me crazy but I'd say it's without a doubt a Weymann Mandolute.

I don't think the heart on the headstock was done at the factory in Philadelphia.

Here's some information.

[Jim Garber]

Gee, that is a tough one. What do you think, Mike?

[2poor4Loar]

I suspect it's Joe's Mandolute...lol

[MikeEdgerton]

Gee, that is a tough one. What do you think, Mike?

Jim, you're the expert, back me up here

I think I'm safe on this one.

[michaelpthompson]

OK, am I allowed to use the term "smartass" on the Mandolin Café Forum? I kinda figured out the Weymann Mandolute part. Bit obvious, even for a guy who just spent the last two days sharing single malt whisky with a bunch of kilted Scots.



But more seriously, she was thinking it was from around the turn of the 20th century. Her grandmother had it for years. I read the linked bit about the Weymann Mandolutes. Any further information from all you wise people? Was this made by Weymann in Philadelphia, or would it have been just labeled and retailed by them? Should I offer to put some good strings on it and try to tune it up, or am I just asking for trouble when it crumbles to dust and she accuses me of destroying her grandmother's heritage?

I was kinda hoping for something like "The fretboard extension shows it was one of the earlier Weymann products, and the binding is reminiscent of Lloyd Weymann's experimental work." Or something more erudite than "Smirk, smirk, I think it's a Weymann." <smirk>

[michaelpthompson]

I don't think the heart on the headstock was done at the factory in Philadelphia.

It's pretty crude. Apparently, it also used to have her grandfather's name or something on it, but that was removed. You can still see where it was.

[allenhopkins]

Before I jump into this "laff-fest," let me assert my impeccable credentials: I used to own a Weymann Mandolute, until I traded it in as part of a package for an Eastman mandola.

My instrument was a lower-end one, with less binding and inlay, non-engraved-and-plate-covered tuners, and a "natural" finish top. This is one of their higher-end models. This one looks fancier than their Model 30, but not as fancy as the Model 50, which had side purfling and headstock inlays.

In this recent thread about a Stromberg-Voisinet mandolin sold with the Weymann nameplate, I dug up this info:

Established in 1864, Weymann's first location was 1108 Chestnut Street. Over the years they relocated at least twice in Philadelphia, and in 1931 their address was 31 N. 10th Street. The company sold instruments made by other companies that varied in quality from student to high grade. They had various trade names, including Weymann, W&S (Weymann & Son), Varsity, and Keystone State...Weymann's "Musical Merchandise" catalog No. 50, issued circa 1931, describes the company as "Manufacturers, Importers and Jobbers of Everything Musical." It is 112 pages in length and does, indeed, include a vast array of products, including some very fancy Weymann "Orchestra" banjos of their own manufacture.

So a "Weymann" label doesn't guarantee manufacture by Weymann. However, no one else of whom I'm aware, sold the distinctively-designed Mandolutes, with induced-arch top and back, deeper body, and slightly elongated "A" silhouette, so it seems quite likely that Weymann made them. They definitely made banjo-family instruments. "Keystone State" was one of their common labels, and I was told (can't find the reference) that "Keystone State Music" was a major PA dealership selling Weymann instruments.

Can't quite tell from the pics, but does this instrument have the "violin construction" where top and back project slightly beyond the sides? Again, a characteristic of the higher-end Mandolutes; my old one just had straight sides.

I liked my old Mandolute (and miss it sometimes); it had a strong voice and clear mid-range, reminiscent of a good Martin mando. Not a bluegrass instrument, but very suited to other styles. Weymann Mandolutes seem to command fairly strong prices as compared to other "vintage" instruments by now-defunct makers. This one has been subjected to some amateurish "customizing," but could well be a worthy player.

[MikeEdgerton]

There were plenty of mandolins sold with the Weymann name and Keystone State sticker on them that were not made by Weymann. I think Jim Garber has a Strad-O-Lin genre mandolin with the tag. I've seen Kays as well that were labeled. The Mandolutes that I have seen appear to be from the same builder or at least built the same so I assume they were built by the same people and I also assume they were part of the Wemann organization but that like anything else is open to debate. I can tell you that the Weymann banjos that I have owned were pretty consistent.

[Jim Garber]

Sorry for the sarcasm. I think we are used to questions on less obvious examples. I suppose that you could have avoided the smirking by posting the question as "More info on this Weymann mandolute."

In any case, I believe that around the turn of the last century, Weymann was still making bowlbacks and the mandolutes were at least teens, possibly 1920s. I always thought of them being made by Weymann but there is some connection to Vega and Lyon & Healy to the Weymann Company. I think the Strad-)-Lin or Kay connection comes later, like 1930s/40s.

[michaelpthompson]

Can't quite tell from the pics, but does this instrument have the "violin construction" where top and back project slightly beyond the sides? Again, a characteristic of the higher-end Mandolutes; my old one just had straight sides.

There is a lip extending beyond the sides on both top and bottom, so that's definitely a good insight.

[michaelpthompson]

Sorry for the sarcasm. I think we are used to questions on less obvious examples. I suppose that you could have avoided the smirking by posting the question as "More info on this Weymann mandolute."

No worries, I took it all in good humor. I guess I could have asked the question more specifically. I was proud of myself for managing photos of the labels, especially the one on the inside with the patent number.

Thanks to everybody for all the information on Weymann and their instruments.

[Tom C]

Kind of reminds me of this greatmovie clip....