Buy a new mandolin or upgrade what I have?

[Andrew Rice]

So I'm a pretty new mandolin player. I picked it up in Feb. to learn a bunch of Irish songs for the month of St Patricks. I had a blast and I'd like to keep playing. However both my mandolins are god awful and they don't really make me want to pick it up ever. My main instrument is bass at the moment so I don't want to sink a ton of money into an instrument that will rarely see stage time.

What I have now:
Dean Mandolin. This one is a piece of crap. It won't stay in tune for an entire song and the built in piezo pickup doesn't have much in the way of volume or a decent tone. No sustain. I actually cut my palm on a fret end. High action. No sustain. No point playing much of anything past the 5th fret.

K-Tone: No name cheapo thats a basic "lets stick a guitar pickup here" kinda thing. It actually sounds decent enough with the pickup, if only a little noisy. Is better at staying in tune. Playability is about the same. High action, no sustain. The neck is slightly more comfy though. The frets were improperly inserted so the highest E would get caught under the fret. I fixed that with nail polish.


Is it a good idea to upgrade the K-Tone's bridge, tail piece, pickup, and tuners? Possibly too investing in a good head-toe set up? Or would my money be better spent actually getting a good instrument instead of polishing a ####? My budget is about 300$ but I could do more given a few more months.

[dcoventry]

http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/...uery=retrieval
http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/...uery=retrieval

These are quite nice and should hold you for awhile.

[draino]

Well, you could spend $200-$300 on the K-tone with the upgrades you mention and have a well playing mandolin-shaped plywood box. Or you could spend ~$250 from one of the mandolincafe sponsors and get a well-playing, all solid wood Kentucky KM150. I think the decision is easy.

One note: the mandolin is inherently an instrument with little sustain. Flat-top style mandolins have a bit more sustain, but even there . . . its a short-scale stringed instrument, its not gonna sustain anything like a bass or guitar. Indeed, the lack of sustain is really what gives the mandolin much of its character. Indeed, every instrument that I've heard that has been described as being a great bluegrass instrument has really short sustain.

[Jim Ferguson]

What's that old saying: "You can put lipstick on a pig.....but it is still a pig!!!!" You might do all sorts of upgrades to those mandos & may never be happy with the final outcome......the sound!!!!! Part of that may be you as you are so new to playing BUT I am betting the major part will be the instrument itself.
Bottom Line: Save your $$$ & get yourself a nice new Kentucky, Eastman, or The Loar mando in the $500-600 range OR a used one worth ~$ 1K that you can probably pick up used in the $500-600 range. You WON'T regret it.
Peace,
Jim

[Tom Haywood]

People love their Kentuckys, and you can get them for a good price. It is still a Chinese made instrument like the Dean. I found that whatever you buy, you need to spend around $700.00 to get a basic decent mandolin that will give you good sound, playability and durability. You might look at The Loar line. Again Chinese made and a great price. I know a couple of professional bluegrass players who love them. If you really don't like what you have, you may not be happy after sinking more money into them. Find some Kentuckys and The Loars and play them before you decide.

[Andrew Rice]

I think I know what you mean about sustain. I play banjo as well, and while it doesn't sustain nearly as well as my bass the notes are choked out from having action nearly 1/2" off the fretboard.

[Rob Gerety]

Get a decent used mandolin in good shape.

[Spencer]

I also think your money would be better spend on an upgrade. Another alternative is the Redline,

Redline Mandolins
These are similar to Barry Kratzer's instruments in the post by dcoventry. Both are hand made, solid wood instruments of good quality.

Flattop round-hole instruments work quite nicely for Irish music. I've played some very nice instruments of this style.

Spencer

[Paul Busman]

I'd still suggest taking your current instruments to a good luthier and see what he/she thinks a good setup would do for you. A lot of the problems you're talking about are usually very fixable without spending a lot of money.

[Mandobart]

Both your instruments have pickups. Do you want an electric mando, acoustic, or acoustic electric? If you want an acoustic go with the above recommendations. I seriously recommend finding a decent used instrument from someone who is also upgrading to a higher level. Reason being a decent quality used mando will likely have had a decent setup done by the previous owner, and of course you'll save money. If you want a full-on solid body electric mando, check out the Epiphone Mandobird or Eastman Mandocaster on the lower end, many others as you move up to higher price. Be warned that there are some mods and setup you'll need to do on either of these.

If you want an acoustic-electric, you can add piezo's to any acoustic mando. Have you done the basics first on your mandos; new strings, set the action and intonation? If not you may be surprised at the improvemnt in sound. No one has to live with too high action, it's not hard to change.

[Denny Gies]

My experience is that investment in a better mandolin pays a lot of dividends over time. If you can afford it, upgrade.

[michaelpthompson]

Most of the problems you describe would be fixed with a good setup, though as people have pointed out, you'd still have a cheap mando. You could certainly do a lot of improvement for under $100. At least take them to a decent luthier and ask for some advice.

You also mentioned a lot about pickups. If you want an acoustic that can be plugged in, I have to mention once again how happy I am with my Ovation Celebrity. Decent sounding by itself, it sounds great amplified, and is virtually feedback-proof compared to an acoustic with pickup. Plus, it's much sturdier than your standard mandolin. Also heard good stuff about the Godin A-8, but I have no personal experience with them.

[allenhopkins]

Every dollar you put into tweaking your unsatisfactory mandolins, is a dollar you won't have saved towards buying a decent one.

Are you planning to play Celtic music amplified? Can you buy a good, solid-wood, A-model instrument -- flat-top or carved top -- and retrofit a pickup to it later, or does it have to go onstage, amplified, now? Your budget is pretty low for a good solid-wood, or at least solid-top, instrument with a decent pickup.

[Andrew Rice]

I don't only plan on doing Irish music. We do a lot of punk numbers and a few country ones as well. My main band is an alternative country band. (I cringe just saying that.)

I'm not particularly picky on a style of mandolin. Honestly, if it works and plays decently with low action, I'd be as happy as a clam.

I've already given them a set up. I tried a few brands of strings and settled upon the Martin brand in the 10 gauge. I set the intonation (I do guitar and bass set ups for people as it is now) and lowered the bridges as much as they'd go. Unfortunately the bridges are cut horribly wrong and are much too thick. Both of them have the string grooves cut too shallow or too wide. I don't have the bridge backwards either. It seems they cut them at random. Instead of trying to rework the #### bridges I'd just get a decent replacement and maybe a fancier tailpiece where I don't have to remove the cover. If I were to take either of them in, I'd have a new nut cut for the K-Tone and those bum frets fixed.

As for amplification I'd like to steer clear of piezos because then I'd need a buffer and a preamp which is more work than I want to do. There is also the issue of feedback. In all honestly I'll probably get a lavalier or a button (the kind that fits over the soundhole) microphone and see how that works out. Failing that, I'd just install a detachable guitar pickup into the sound hole and drill a hole in the side for an output jack. I know it'll rob the mandolin of many of its acoustic properties but, honestly, the people listening don't care all that much. I've done it to several acoustic guitars before without issue.

What used brands and dealers do you recommend? What modifications are needed for the Epiphone and Eastwood electric mandolins?

Our next gig isn't at least until December and we'll probably start running through the 30 songs we do have (+ any others) around mid-October.

[michaelpthompson]

As for amplification I'd like to steer clear of piezos because then I'd need a buffer and a preamp which is more work than I want to do. There is also the issue of feedback.

OK, given all this, we're seriously back to getting an Ovation or a Godin. An acoustic mandolin was never made to be plugged in. You can kind of make it work, much as you've tried to make your cheapo instruments work, but maybe you'd be better off using something that was MADE to be amplified, rather than trying to adapt something foreign to the purpose.

Put a lot of money and effort into a cheap mando, and you've got a cheap mando that plays pretty well. Put a lot of money and effort into an acoustic mando, and you've got an acoustic mando that CAN be plugged in, but has limitations. Better investment to put your time and money into something made for the purpose you're trying to accomplish.

[Andrew Rice]

I think an ovation is probably my best bet at this point. I practice at home and would like something that I don't have to plug in to practice and can possibly jam with someone on an acoustic guitar. This is my main reason for not really being keen on a fully electric mandolin.

[Rodney Riley]

My main instrument is bass... K-Tone: The neck is slightly more comfy though....

Is the neck rounded and a little wider than the Dean? The Godin A-8 has a rounded neck and a wider fret board. It might be a little easier for making the transition from a bass to the mando

I use a blues driver and a Korg ToneWorks AX3A pedal with my Godin when the mando sound just won't work with some of the worship songs we do. No preamp, just plug mine in and go. Mando sound for the country songs then stomp the pedal to add to the punk stuff. Start saving now and you could have one before the December gig.

OK, even though the Godin doesn't have the traditional sound holes. You should try one and hear how loud they are. Granted you will be overpowered by other instruments if you are not plugged in. Only time I plug mine in at home is to find the right pedal sound I want to go with a song.

Oh, I have a Weber Gallatin that I love and do most of my practicing with, but I use the Godin playing in the worship band.

[8ch(pl)]

There is an Epiphone A with Hard case in the Classifieds for $200.

[Paul Busman]

If you're in a band that does punk, you might want to consider an electric mandolin altogether. Check out:

http://emando.com/

There are even electric mandolin kits that you could build yourself.

[Mandobart]

....What modifications are needed for the Epiphone and Eastwood electric mandolins?...

I recently bought a used Mandobird VIII for about $200; read the thread here if interested. Based on all the discussion I knew going in I would need to replace the bridge and pickup, for about $45 each, and of course replace the strings. All told I put about $300 in to buy and upgrade it, but I'm happy with the sound. If I were playing in a punk band it's definitley what I would bring. For alt country (no need to cringe, I love that stuff) I use an acoustic I added piezo's to. I've heard the mandocaster also needs a better than stock pickup.

[Tim2723]

I think an ovation is probably my best bet at this point. I practice at home and would like something that I don't have to plug in to practice and can possibly jam with someone on an acoustic guitar. This is my main reason for not really being keen on a fully electric mandolin.

Given everything you've said from the start, I'll say without reservation that the Ovation will do the job for you perfectly. I'm not sure why Thompson keeps beating me to the draw on these posts, but pay attention to what he and the other Ovation players say about those instruments. They're not for everyone, but I think it will be as ideal for you as it has been for the rest of us. With the budget you've mentioned you might be tempted by the Applause version of the mandolin. I hesitate to recommend that one. It's a poor copy of a fine machine. Look for a used Celebrity model or save for a new one instead. If you can go so far as the American-made MM-68, that is the flagship of the line.

[michaelpthompson]

With the budget you've mentioned you might be tempted by the Applause version of the mandolin. I hesitate to recommend that one. It's a poor copy of a fine machine. Look for a used Celebrity model or save for a new one instead. If you can go so far as the American-made MM-68, that is the flagship of the line.

There's an American-made MM-68 on eBay right now. Six days left in the auction and it's still sitting at $700. Says it's used but in really great condition. NFI.

Otherwise, I agree with Tim. I bought my Celebrity from Elderly for about half of what they sell for new, because the bridge was loose. Paid my luthier to reglue the bridge and now I have an instrument I really love. I mostly play acoustic, but when I plug in, it's a whole new world. If you're doing punk, this would be ideal.

[Tim2723]

That's a very recent model (note the flush-mounted epaulettes). Seems to be in great condition. I wish I were in the market for a new one.

[Steve Ostrander]

Don't waste your money on upgrades. Put it towards a new mandolin.