Girnigoe Castle - sheet music anyone?

[Bernie Daniel]

Hello,

For the last hour or so I have been trying to pick off the Scottish strathspey (key of G) from Karen Beaton's "How Sweet the Sound" CD (she a wonderful Cape Breton fiddler and is the wife of Joey Beaton).

I think I have the basic song down (clams but that is always the case with me) but I want to find the sheet music to clean it up.

On Google I get dozens of hits on Girnigoe Castle itself but I cannot even find out who wrote the song and I have been to a lot of collections of Scottish tune.

Anyone there for the land of the kilt and plaid who play this tune or can direct me to the right place?

Here is what I have -- I slow down at each repeat because I am playing along with Ms. Beaton and she is transitioning from an aire to the strathspey.

Thanks in advance.

[harper]

It says on this site that it was composed by Bain: http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

[Bernie Daniel]

Dah.. I was on that site too -- several times. I missed that innocuous statement "Composed by Bain" up there in the corner.

I think the reason is I was so excited to find those few bars of the tune and thought that I had a midi file to download...

Well that's a clue -- at this point I don't know who Bain is (I wonder if it is Aly Bain?!!!) but it is a place to start at least --- I'll take if from there. Thanks!!

[harper]

I don't know how to do this, but you might try putting the first part of the tune in abc format and then looking for it on John Chambers' ABC tune finder http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/tunefind

[Bernie Daniel]

Thanks for the idea but abc format (along with notation) is not my forte -- notation I can easily convert to tab.

That looks like an interesting site -- I'm bet they use a dummied down version of the type of software used to recognize gene coding sequences....

But I just sent an email to a contact who knows most of the fiddlers in Cape Breton and I expect he will be able to put me in contact with the Beatons who obviously have the info. Thanks again.

[Tosh Marshall]

Bernie,
You can easily convert ABC into standard notation here: http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html
It'll convert them into PDF and you can play it back as a midi......

[Bernie Daniel]

Tosh, Thanks for that information. I'll make a note of that site.

However, I do have TablEdit and I can import ABC and convert it to notation or tab. For Girnigoe Castle all I have for the song is the recording on Karen Beaton's CD -- I have nothing else in hard copy or electronic format.

If I had a clean midi I could convert that to whatever with TablEdit also - -I have a program that claims to be able to convert mp3 to midi but I've lost faith in it -- that its a pretty tricky business going that direction.

Converting the pdf to a midi sounds very much the way to go if one had the hard copy -- thanks for that bit of info. I recall seeing something like that advertised once now that you mention it.

It is odd but neither the Sessions or the Fiddler's Companion sites mention the tune and it was not listed on several large lists of Scottish fiddle tunes. Yet it has been recoreded four times!??

I'm sure eventually I will figure this out -- meanwhile I pretty much have the tune -- after listening a few more times using Amazing Slowdowner I realize that I still had a bit of the B-part mixed up but that is fixed now. But my video is not totally right -- so I will pull that down and repost it soon.

Thanks again for your info!

[harper]

Bernie,

Here is a little more to go on. I turned up a tune called "Lord Seaforth" that is very similar in the A part to the tune you are playing. If Girnigoe Castle is a modern composition, it may be a derivative of this very old Scottish tune. I found it by looking at the liner notes for Lisa McArthur’s self-titled album, one of the four recordings listed on the Cape Breton Fiddle Recordings website for this tune. The liner notes list a strathspey on track 9 as “Lord Seaforth” http://www.fiddlestream.com/odyssey/lisa-liners.htm.

“The Fiddler’s Companion” website http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/LORC_LORP.htmgives a history and sources for this tune. Sources are: Carlin (The Gow Collection), 1986; No. 381. Gow (Complete Repository), Part 3, 1806; pg. 15. Kerr (Merry Melodies), vol. 1; Set 11, No. 3, pg. 8. Lowe, 1844. MacDonald (The Skye Collection), 1887; pg. 78. Martin (Traditional Scottish Fiddling), 2002; pg. 134. Perlman (Fiddle Music of Prince Edward Island), 1996; pg. 61. Stewart-Robertson (The Athole Collection), 1884; pg. 162. Surenne (Dance Music of Scotland), 1852; pgs. 80-81.

I have Carlin and MacDonald, and the Lord Seaforth tune they include is the same as this tune on the John Chambers website. There is also a reel by the same name on the Cape Breton Fiddle Recordings website, but it seems to be a very different tune.

Hope this helps you on your quest.

[harper]

Lord Seaforth from John Chambers site:

[Bernie Daniel]

Well thanks a lot, Haper!

That is a pretty classey bit of research that you did there and I appreciate it.

I like the name Lord Seaforth better anyway. I converted the .pdf you sent me to a midi file and I agree the first section sounds very similar to what I was try to pick up of the Beaton CD. The B-part has some elements that are the same but it seems definately a different tune. Looks like it is an ancient tune alright.

A bit ago I found an email address for her niece (by marriage), Andrea Beaton (who is a well known CB fiddle in her own right-- she is Kinnon Beaton's daughter) and maybe she can put me in contact with Karen to see where she found this tune.

I just now tried to attach the midi but it is not an alowed attachment format-- I might contact Scott about that it see if it can be added.

When I hear back from Karen Beaton I will be sure and let you know her side of the story.

Many thanks for all your help!!

[Ravenwood]

The Beaton family has published many of their tunes in this compilation though I don't have a table of contents and can't say whether the particular tune you are looking for is in this book:

http://www.cranfordpub.com/books/beaton.htm

As an alternative you could contact Craford publications:

http://www.cranfordpub.com/tunes/abcs/abc_tunes.htm

Hope that helps.

[Bernie Daniel]

Ravenwood: As an alternative you could contact Craford publications:

Yes that is a great idea -- I sent an email to the Cape Breton Fiddler's Assocation but I get the idea that web site is not too active.

I have purchased a number of CD's from Cranford and they would certainly have contacts with all the performers on the island. The "How Sweet the Sound" CD was done by Marcel Doucet. Thanks.

I just saw the write up on the Book -- it is mostly Kinnon Beaton's work (brother in law to Karen) -- is it really possible that he has written over 500 tunes? Pretty amazing!

We were on the island for vacation two years ago and we heard that Kinnnon was giving a fiddle work shop in the Cape Breton Historical Society (is it in Judique?) so we drove over from Badek -- I only had a mandolin with me but that he said it did not matter just sit in.

When it was over I had the honor of showing him a couple of American fiddle tunes.

[Tosh Marshall]

Hi Bernie,

Something of interest, I checked out the site for Clan Sinclair, the current owners of Girnigoe Castle. It has a page of pipe tunes on it and one is listed as Sinclair Castle. Unfortunately it is not the tune you are after but it is worth a look http://www.clansinclair.org/Pipe_Tunes.htm
All the best
Tosh

[Bernie Daniel]

Tosh,

I now have Karen Beaton's postal address and I sent her a letter asking about the tune.

There is more than a bit of confusion about it actually. I did not realize it but the liner notes that came with her CD actually was fold up of several pages and inside was some additional details on the music.

Karen calls the song merely "strathspey in G as played by Theresa MacLellan".

Those who know CB fiddlers know that Theresa only plays occasionally now but that she is one of the old guard of the Cape Breton fiddle tradtion. So I expect to know a lot more about this tune.

And I do not know why Alan Snyder's CB fiddle recordings site has decided to call the tune "Girnigoe Castle".

I will follow up with more meanwhile I think I more or less have the tune figured out now. Thanks for all your efforts!

[Ravenwood]

Over the weekend I had a chance to talk to a friend who is more familiar than I with the Cape Breton repertoire than I. He said he thinks the title Girnigoe Castle is correct and that it was composed by Fraser Bain, but he didn't know the tune, nor has he seen anything written about it.

Bernie, please keep us posted as this one really has peaked my curiosity.

[Bernie Daniel]

Ravenwood: ...please keep us posted as this one really has peaked my curiosity.

Thanks for the interest.

I did send an email to Kinnen Beaton (Karen's brother in law) and in a separate line of inquiry I found out from Alan Snyder (he owns and runs the CB fiddle music site already linked in an early part of this string) that it is in Kohler's Fiddle Repository. This compendium does not seem readily available unless you happen to live near the National Library of Scotland -- I may stand corrected on this however.

So I emailed him back asking if he has access to the repository and if so if he would supply the music.

Rest assured I will post the sheet music it here as soon as I get my hands on it. Its kind of funny how something a little bit mysterious or inaccessible can spur interest -- on the other hand it is a very cool tune -- and it has definitely gotten under my skin.

I am not sure what the rules are but I could post an mp3 of the set with Girnigoe Castle from Karen Beaton's CD as I have ripped it to my hard drive. But I am thinking that would not be something the Mandolin Cafe would like being done? In fact, I'm not sure it would even be legal to do so.

[PseudoCelt]

Here's the sheet music for Girnigoe Castle as it appears in Köhlers' Violin Repository.

Patrick

[Ravenwood]

Thank you Patrick!

Interesting that the composer credit doesn't give a first name.

[Tosh Marshall]

Patrick, you're a genius! Many thanks for going to all that trouble and locating the tune. It would be great if someone could reprint this work.
Do you think the first note in the second section is a mis-print as it goes c to c and all the other similar sections (take bar 3 of the second section starts with a B. Just a thought? Anyway I have added it to my Castles abc and if anyone has a castle tune to add to it be my guest.....
Bernie, problem solved, what's the next near impossible tune you can find

[PseudoCelt]

Just lucky that the book was in a library nearby.

It would be great if someone could reprint this work.

Is that a hint? Maybe when I'm less busy, I'll scan the whole book.

Bernie, problem solved, what's the next near impossible tune you can find

This was quite an easy one, only taking 10 days or so to locate. Other tunes have taken me over a year to track down.

Patrick

[Bernie Daniel]

That is fantastic! Thanks so much! I'm curious what does this mysterious tome look like and how large is it? Thanks again for your efforts!!

Tosh I would have said Glen Caladh Castle -- but you provided that in you last batch of tune!!

[PseudoCelt]

I'm curious what does this mysterious tome look like and how large is it?

It's quite a small book, about 9” x 7”. As Nigel Gatherer mentions on the other Kohlers’ thread, it appears to be just the original issues of KVR bound together, with a title page, preface and some notes on playing added. The first few issues do not have a title/price, so they may originally have had a separate cover page that was removed when all the issues were collated. There are roughly 250 pages.

The cover of the copy I saw is rather unremarkable, with only the title on the spine. It’s much more recent than 1881 and the style of binding is typical of bound volumes of scientific journals, etc, so it was probably rebound at some point.

Patrick

[Bernie Daniel]

I guess it kind of begs the question -- if the KVR was indeed a periodical -- how many "subscribers" were there in the 1800's?

Was there such a thing as a "subscription" to the journal when it was apparently being produced as a periodical -- prior to 1881?

If not, and if there WAS only one copy produced and this is the only bound collection of this work it seems like it would be a very worthy project for either some part of the government involved with Scottish heritage or a private group to have the work reproduced?

At least with this particular tune Kohler's seems to be THE place it was preserved? I suppose many that play Girnigoe Castle today have picked it up by ear perhaps? But perhaps other "forgotten" Scottish fiddle tunes are in the collection?

Anyway it is great that you took the time to check it out -- maybe this thread will generate some additional interest in the volume.

[Tosh Marshall]

For those that can't read dots, I have tabbed it out....
Enjoy
Tosh

[Bernie Daniel]

Tosh that is pretty nice. What program did you use? Maybe PDFtoMusic?

I tried to enter the notation into Tabledit and then save done a .tef file -- but I was not able to get it right. Songs like strathspeys are hard to do in that program -- the syncopation (dotted 8ths and tied to 16ths) always end up wrong and it is sometimes impossible to make the measure play right. In TablEdit the position of the next note -- left to right -- in the measure exerts partial control over the value of the note. Its hard to explain and exasperating but that is how it is.

The one advantage of TablEdit is (if you can set it up that is) is the fact that you can format the tab the same as the notation and that you can play it as well.