When gibson bought flatiron

[Jeffers]

Hi y'all. #Been a while since I showed my face around here ... been learning to play guitar! (boooooooo)

Anyway, am currently financially secure enough to be looking at a mandolin upgrade. #

There's a Flatiron A5 Artist 1988, signed by Dennis Balan for sale. #I know that it was around the end of 1987 that Gibson bought the Flatiron company.

Does anyone know if there were any changes in production of the Flatiron mandos around this time? #Anything to set a 1987 model apart from a 1988 model?

[Bill Van Liere]

Howdy Jeff

I own both a 84 (Carlson) and a 88 Flatiron (Balian) which were both purchased new by me. I have not noticed much difference structure wise with the early Flatirons after Gibson moved in. If anything the finish on the 88 seems a bit thinner. An 88 A5 Artist should be very similiar to Carlson signed A5 Artist.

[Jeffers]

Hey, thanks for the info! I'll let you know what happens.

[Nathan Kellstadt]

Speaking of Flatiron changes, when did they switch from X-bracing to tone bars?

[Ken Berner]

I imagine that Gibson started installing tone bars in the Flatiron Signature Series (Master and Artist models) when they made the move to Nashville. Prior to that, the F5 had tone bars as did the A5 Jr. The A5 and M5 Jr. had X-bracing. I don't think they produced any Master Models after the move, and few were built in Montana.

[Greenmando]

My 96 Festival made in Montana has tone bars.

[MikeEdgerton]

This was a recent auction on eBay. An F5X made in Bozeman, Montana.

[Ken Berner]

Mike, I have attempted to locate owners of these few Gibson F5-X mandolins. A couple of years ago, Greg Boyd offered two of these for sale, at $3,600 each; a fair price in anyone's book if in good condition. I have a feeling that this may have been an "experiment" with X-braced mandolins with Gibson on the headstock; perhaps just a lark. These were probably built at the same time and were very late in the "Montana era". At any rate, these Gibsons are rare and probably sound as good as the X-braced Flatiron F5 Artists or Master Models of that era.

[Jeffers]

The dreaded e-bay strikes again!

The A5 Artist mentioned above for sale was withdrawn from auction, don't know why.

Probably all for the best as I am quite uncomfortable buying on e-bay - a bit like a box of chocolates.

It's just too bad that I was already imagining all the wonderful things I was going to play on it!

[Ken Berner]

Jeffers, Hang in there . . . another one will show up sooner or later in the classifieds right here on this web site! I sold my '93 A5 Artist (Carlson) last year in order to reduce my arsenal and, of course, I do miss it. I would not have parted with it if I didn't have my '92 F5 Artist as my main squeeze.

[man0mando]

hi, the F5 Master and F5 Artist as well as the A5 Artist and A5 were x-braced -
A5 Junior tone bars and M5 Junior X braced - the F5, Performer F and Festival F were tone bars - this was true before gibson bought flatiron - not sure when or if this changed - i got a file once from flatiron that detailed each model and that's where this info comes from (certainly not my memory)

i met a guy once who said he worked for flatiron and when gibson bought the company the the same people were making all mandos - flatirons and gibsons from the same pile of lumber - that would have been before moving from montana

dave

[cooper4205]

Here's a pre-Gibson A5-Jr. for around $1500. you might be able to talk 'em down a little. I absolutely love mine, and its more than enough mandolin for me.

[fatt-dad]

I just wrote this fellow for permission and photos to include in my pre-Gibson database. I'd say this is a nice mandolin!

f-d

[loess]

Bumping this thread because I'm currently weighing a tough decision between a 1988 Flatiron A-5 Artist (Balian), a 1989 Flatiron A-5 Artist (Balian), and a 1984 A5-1 (Carlson). These aren't mandolins I have an opportunity to play before purchasing, due to distance. If I had all the money in the world, I'd simply invest in all three, play 'em for a while and go from there. Alas, my pockets aren't that deep

I may be splitting hairs here, as all of the Montana-made Flatirons seem to have an impeccable reputation regardless of who signed the label, but is there any reason to go for the (slightly more expensive) 1984 Carlson-signed A5-1 versus the 1988 or 1989 A5 Artists with regard to tone or playability? The 1984 A5-1 in question has upgraded tuners, has been re-fretted, comes with an upgrade James tailpiece and has a small professionally repaired crack on the bass side of one of the F-holes.

From what I can tell, the only significant difference in 1988 (and possibly portions of 1989?) is that Steve Carlson wasn't around to do the carving work. I did see Bill Van Liere's post above but other than that I've searched just about every thread on the Cafe that discusses 1980s Flatirons, and haven't found much discussion from those who have sat down with both and compared early Carlson-signed Flatiron A5's and the ones that were produced shortly after Gibson purchased the company.

[Danny Clark]

i would think the 88 and 89 will sound good ,but the 84 should be a beast!! everyone i have playe dfrom that circa were great ,it will not have an adjustable truss rod ,do the neck is a little beefier
Danny

[fatt-dad]

. . . so the mic is no good (macbook internal) and I just play for therapy (i.e., the talent's off too). Here's a little video of me playing a simple diddy (Prettiest Girl in the Country) on my '84 A5-1. Old strings, etc. . .

I've owned this mandolin for over 10 years and had Lou Stiver radius the board (refret required). The tailpiece was also changed out (stamped for stamped). It's not for sale - just sharing.

I've always loved this mandolin. Even with my hobby-shop talent, I know it's a good one.

f-d

[Big Joe]

I think you will find that very few of the production mandolins (as the Flatiron) were being carved by the guy signing the label. Most often it was done by one of the guys in production. The "boss" usually has too much else to do so they can't spend a lot of time hands on in the instruments. Nonetheless, they are all good instruments. You will find it really does not matter which year, they will perform rather nicely. When you get into the 90's there were a couple years they used a different finish and it was not that good. The 80's were good. When Gibson bought Flatiron it wasn't to change them, but to have a place that could actually build them immediately. The pre and post Gibson Flatirons were pretty much the same... at least for a few years.

[loess]

Nice picking, f-d! I've seen your photos of that mandolin in other threads...she's a beauty for sure.

Joe and Danny, thanks for your comments. Joe, that's essentially how I had perceived the production process. I may just have to bite the bullet and get the 1988 A5 Artist and the 1984 A5-1 to compare them side by side.

I've noticed that the stock (nickel?) tuners on those early A5-1's look rather bulky and heavy. F-D, do those hold their tuning pretty reliably?

[fatt-dad]

F-D, do those hold their tuning pretty reliably?

yes. No problems at all.

f-d

[Bill Van Liere]

Hey loess - I live an hour from Elderly Instruments in West Michigan and have seen a lot of Flatirons in my days. Back in early 90s seemed like every picker I knew around here went to Elderly, fell in love with a HD-28, bought it and also many players, didn't matter if they played banjo, dobro or whatever also bought a Flatiron A. For years about the only thing you find around here were Stivers or Flatirons.
Flatiron A models are a good functional instruments. Nice bottom thump and highs that work well in a band/Bluegrass jam situation. To be sure there are many more choices today and some might meet your tastes better but these Flatiron continue to be a great value. As far as the Montana made Flatirons go I would like to add that I never a bad one.

If you do get the 84 and the 88 side by side I would like hear your thoughts comparing the two.

Do look very carefully for finish cracks in the neck joint area.

[ollaimh]

a certain amount is in the player. i started on a greek bouzouki i bought in a junk store. it had the owners card so i phoned him up. it was a fifties bouzouki he had sold when he was drinking too much. however unlike many now it was well built and sang. so i played it constantly. then i was driving through eastern washington state and there was a gibsom a snake head 1924 in a junk store. it was 500 bucks. i knew enough to know that was cheap for a sixty year old gibson(this was twenty some years ago) and presto i became a mandolin player. i busked and gigged with those two for decades but i still like the cheap old greek bouzouki capoed to the high fretts.