Work for musicians in europe?

[poymando]

I was wondering if there is enough music work in Europe to make moving there worth it for an American roots musician. (bluegrass, OT, blues etc..)
If so, where is the interest strongest?

[Klaus Wutscher]

Bluegrass/ old time - NO WAY!!!

Blues (with clever marketing and great chops) - you might get by, eventually

Country - you might get the gigs to survive somehow but it will not build up because the market is too small - you will start "at the top" and will not be able to advance moneywise because there isn´t enough money.

The few Americans that are playing professionally where I live (Austria)are not making what I would call a decent or even modest living. They struggle to make ends meet even after ten or more years.

Can you gig alone? If you are a good singer and entertainer, you might be able to carve out a niche for yourself, like Beppe Gambetta has. He can live from his music, but knowing Beppe, I can tell that he works hard.

It´s not impossible, but it´s a tough assignment- probably as tough as making it in the States.

In Austria and Germany, the pub/club scene has been in a dump for years and everybody struggles. There is a big scene in the Czech Rep. and living is cheap, but you don´t make much money at the festivals. Also don´t underestimat the language thing- English will not always help you out in everyday situations and learning Czech is HARD.

However, things might be different in England or Ireland. That might be more interesting and the language barrier is not a problem. But whatever you do, don´t move to London - you will be broke before you even started #

[Christopher Howard-Williams]

Many of the professional musicians in our styles of music (Bluegrass and related) are throwing in the towel and taking on day jobs. It's getting hard. There are a few who manage it. Willy Wainwright did ok playing out of Geneva but then even he left to go to Hawaii.
You may want to come over and explore. There are fewer opportunities here than in the States and fewer players - especially with a good American apprenticeship.

[adgefan]

I know of only a few professional bluegrassers here in England. But they are world class musicians, and bluegrass isn't where they make a living. They've branched out into all sorts of areas, as well as teaching, to make ends meet.

[grassrootphilosopher]

Now is this not an interesting question. But on the other hand, is it not hard to make a living as an acoustic musician anywhere? I reckon that even in the US acoustic musicians hardly make a living just playing music. Apart from the very few like the McCourys and Skaggs the centipede is making progress using more than just two legs. Even in the US musicians are doing jobs on the side like teaching music almost as much or more as they pick.

To give a proper answer to the question about making a living in Europe playing music one has to analyse the musical scene its possibilities as well as its difficulties. You´d have to promote yourself, draft contracts, be your own advertising agency, booker, roadie, soundperson, driver and so forth. That would limit the time of realy playing music to 10% compared to the 90% of your time that you would have to work the other chores. The music would not only be played in the clubs and bars, the weddings and ocasional theater appearances but it would also consist of playing in radio/tv (and such) advertisements, you´d possibly have to work in music related jobs such as teaching the instrument or working in a music store. You´d have to be an outstanding entertainer that reaches the audience as well as your own psychiatrist when you don´t.

To make a long story short. The list of full time bluegrass bands in Europe is short. Rüdiger Helbig (www.ruediger-helbig.de) worked fulltime as a musician for some years as far as I know. He has his own music store now and plays music on the side. He is probably Germany´s banjo picker no.1. Other bands like Shady Mix (www.shadymix.com) or Rolf Sieker (www.siekerband.com) relocated to the USA where they found they had better chances to earn their living in music. Others that have stayed are The Matching Ties (www.matchingties.com), The Bluegrass Boogiemen (www.bluegrassboogiemen.nl) and such. They all do not rely on one style of music but try to come up with a variety in order to please the taste of as broad a public as may attend their concerts. So you´d probably have to get into Irish, Scottish, English, German and such folk music as well as into country, blues, a little jazz and what not. Think about your average Nashville session musician and guess what he might be playing on a wednesday as opposed to a friday. The same might be said in other musical fields, wheras life might be a little easier on the Irish/Scottish/English-folkies - quite possibly because of all the Guinness that is involved in the gigs-. That scene seems to be not as stagnating.

As luring as might seem the prospect of playing the music you like professionaly you might end up playing mostly the music that you do not like just to get by. The statistics have it that the average German "artist" has a yearly income of less than 13.000,- $ (about 10.000,- EUR). That would make it awfuly hard on quite some people to make ends meet.

But cheer up brothers and sisters playing music (bluegrass for me) is a hobby that pays well (emotionally and economically).

[grassrootphilosopher]

Now is this not an interesting question. But on the other hand, is it not hard to make a living as an acoustic musician anywhere? I reckon that even in the US acoustic musicians hardly make a living just playing music. Apart from the very few like the McCourys and Skaggs the centipede is making progress using more than just two legs. Even in the US musicians are doing jobs on the side like teaching music almost as much or more as they pick.

To give a proper answer to the question about making a living in Europe playing music one has to analyse the musical scene its possibilities as well as its difficulties. You´d have to promote yourself, draft contracts, be your own advertising agency, booker, roadie, soundperson, driver and so forth. That would limit the time of realy playing music to 10% compared to the 90% of your time that you would have to work the other chores. The music would not only be played in the clubs and bars, the weddings and ocasional theater appearances but it would also consist of playing in radio/tv (and such) advertisements, you´d possibly have to work in music related jobs such as teaching the instrument or working in a music store. You´d have to be an outstanding entertainer that reaches the audience as well as your own psychiatrist when you don´t.

To make a long story short. The list of full time bluegrass bands in Europe is short. Rüdiger Helbig (www.ruediger-helbig.de) worked fulltime as a musician for some years as far as I know. He has his own music store now and plays music on the side. He is probably Germany´s banjo picker no.1. Other bands like Shady Mix (www.shadymix.com) or Rolf Sieker (www.siekerband.com) relocated to the USA where they found they had better chances to earn their living in music. Others that have stayed are The Matching Ties (www.matchingties.com), The Bluegrass Boogiemen (www.bluegrassboogiemen.nl) and such. They all do not rely on one style of music but try to come up with a variety in order to please the taste of as broad a public as may attend their concerts. So you´d probably have to get into Irish, Scottish, English, German and such folk music as well as into country, blues, a little jazz and what not. Think about your average Nashville session musician and guess what he might be playing on a wednesday as opposed to a friday. The same might be said in other musical fields, wheras life might be a little easier on the Irish/Scottish/English-folkies - quite possibly because of all the Guinness that is involved in the gigs-. That scene seems to be not as stagnating.

As luring as might seem the prospect of playing the music you like professionaly you might end up playing mostly the music that you do not like just to get by. The statistics have it that the average German "artist" has a yearly income of less than 13.000,- $ (about 10.000,- EUR). That would make it awfuly hard on quite some people to make ends meet.

But cheer up brothers and sisters playing music (bluegrass for me) is a hobby that pays well (emotionally and economically).

[poymando]

Thanks so much for the replies. Wow, didn't realize it was so tough over there.

[Milan Christi]

I was going to pipe up on this subject earlier but felt I might be perceived as a bit too negative. I've lived in Germany since 1991 and I have to agree that this ain't the place to launch a bluegrass career - at least not now. I played in a successful country band for several years and played solo gigs during the week - even then I had to play a LOT of gigs that were not fulfilling just to pay the bills. On a more positive note I heard Rudi's band play two warm-up sets for Cherryholmes last month. Rudi is a first-class musician and his band is truly the 'real deal' - btw they all teach in addition to playing in a band. And Rudi runs a music store in Munich with his wife who is reportedly a fine guitar player/singer. He's got about the best deal over here!!

Edit*** I forgot to mention that there is a terrific banjo player stationed with the Army over here - we had plans to fnd some other folks and (maybe) start a fun band - we had zero luck finding a fiddle player and even had difficulty finding good guitar pickers and bass players for bluegrass.

[Bob Denton]

One last sour note, don't forget that to be legal you need a work permit for the EU (probably impossible) otherwise you will end up as an English speaking wetback. It will be tough to try to claim assylum

The cost of living is significantly higher ($5++ for a gallon of gas, etc., rent, food...). The only thing cheap are bluegrass bands...

I bought a one way ticket to Ireland in the early 70s, but made my money with a day job, and bringing over "cheap" Gibson mandolins and tenor banjos and reselling them.

Times have changed dramatically, especially since the EU.
My rent was around $40 a month..food was cheap and my band made all our money playing gigs in the States and Germany.
Health care was free.

Cya!

[Spruce]

I was in Venice a few years back, and the myriad of cool sounding plazas sure looked like a busker's wetdream...

Saw a few players (so it's apparently legal), but the place was just dying for a mandolin duo or the like...

[mandopete]

Yeah, but ya gotta play a taterbug!

[SurebetVA]

On a side note, when I was visiting Ruediger and Heidi Helbig last month at their store Folkladen- Heidi was just setting up a new myspace account. #
www.myspace.com/ruedigerhelbig

Ruediger's mandolin player is also awesome - Rupert Paulik has his own website here.

In a twist of irony I saw Cherryholmes in Richmond, VA the day before they flew to Austria and I met with Jeri and Sandy Lee backstage for a few minutes. #The next day I flew to Munich on business and a couple days later caught Ruediger Helbig and the Huckleberry Five at the Oklahoma Saloon in Munich. #Ruediger left the next morning to open for Cherryholmes in Vienna. #Ruediger did an awesome job at the Oklahoma saloon, but I am sure they didn't make much money. #The audience was only about 50 people.

[Clyde Clevenger]

I played in a Country band in England from 72 to 74. 4 GIs and one Brit. He was the steel player for Olivia Newton John. We saw him on TV every week. I can't remember his name, but the band was the Tune Twisters. The band was booked solid for weekends for four years in advance. Old country was very popular in England back then. The pay wasn't memorable, I don't remember what it was. The GIs all had day jobs, the steel player struggled and he was probably the best in the country. I did a few Pub singles and remember making about $12 and night plus free beer. Probably could have played 5 nights a week.

[Klaus Wutscher]

In a twist of irony I saw Cherryholmes in Richmond, VA the day before they flew to Austria and I met with Jeri and Sandy Lee backstage for a few minutes. #The next day I flew to Munich on business and a couple days later caught Ruediger Helbig and the Huckleberry Five at the Oklahoma Saloon in Munich. #Ruediger left the next morning to open for Cherryholmes in Vienna. #Ruediger did an awesome job at the Oklahoma saloon, but I am sure they didn't make much money. #The audience was only about 50 people.

Cherryholmes have been in Vienna? How come NOBODY knew? The audience for Bluegrass in Vienna is maybe 30 people, all of which I know. Obviousely, nobody knew that they are coming.
See, what really kills this music over here is the total absence of marketing...

[adgefan]

Klaus, you are absolutely right. Alison Krauss recently toured the UK and none of my bluegrass friends knew until it had sold out...the publicity can sometimes be nothing short of a joke. We are trying to do something about that with ukbluegrass.com - seems to be doing a job so far, hopefully it'll serve a purpose in the long term.

[Milan Christi]

Cherryholmes have been in Vienna? How come NOBODY knew? The audience for Bluegrass in Vienna is maybe 30 people, all of which I know.

My bad, I guess. I knew. And I drove down from Germany to see them. I promise to let you know of the next events I hear about. Latest one I'm planning on is the Midlands Music Festival in Ireland at the end of July LINK

Not totally a bluegrass lineup but noteworthy for the folks like Ricky Skaggs, Steve Earle, Gillian Welch, Glen Campbell, Christy Moore, Kris Kristofferson and more.

In all fairness (to me) I found out about the Cherryholmes gig from their web site. So I guess I met all 30 of your buds and about 300 others.

[Ken Sager]

Klaus, you are absolutely right. Alison Krauss recently toured the UK and none of my bluegrass friends knew until it had sold #out...the publicity can sometimes be nothing short of a joke. We are trying to do something about that with ukbluegrass.com - seems to be doing a job so far, hopefully it'll serve a purpose in the long term.

A sellout concert is a marketing problem? That's a good kind of problem, no?

[adgefan]

A sellout concert is a marketing problem? That's a good kind of problem, no?

Heh, yes, it's a marketing problem in the bluegrass scene, not for AKUS. They can sell out concerts here without too much bother but extrapolate this situation to the kind of gig where ONLY hardcore bluegrassers will show up and then you have a problem. If the bluegrass scene isn't even aware of (arguably) the biggest bluegrass act touring then something is amiss.

I know of two american bands who have already cancelled UK tours this year due to a seeming lack of interest, and there will probably be more. However, the interest is there, there's just nobody making the most of it.

[Klaus Wutscher]

All I can say is that I know every picker in and around Vienna, and almost anybody active in Austria, which is not a big achievment as there are so few pickers around. If any of these people knew that Cherryholmes are in town, the news would have spread like wildfire. #I would be interested to find out what kind of gig that was. Great news that it sold out but as adgefan stated, the situation is a mess.

On a side note, during my Cherryholmes investigations I learned (by chance) that Claire Lynch is coming to Bratislava next week. How cool is that!

[Milan Christi]

Man I feel like an idiot - I was talking about this subject to my friend who went with me to the concert - when I said 'Vienna' he replied, "dude, we went to Switzerland!" Hey, they both have alpine scenes and they both speak german and they're both almost equidistant from my place. So, for the record, let me state that I did not see them in Vienna! They were in Zurich which I guess is about 800km from Vienna which explains why you probably didn't hear about the gig. Sorry for the confusion - you may laugh now. And now my wife is laughing hysterically at me and saying that Vienna is a lot farther from here than that Zurich.

This has not been a good week

But - also for the record - it was a great show!!

(I'll climb back in my hole now.)

[SurebetVA]

That's funny...shows my lack of attention to details. #I just followed you with the same mistake. #Should have been Zurich of course!

[Klaus Wutscher]

That explains a thing or two... I did ask a few of my buddies, out of curiosity - after I insisted they gave me "the look"

[Lefty&French]

Cherryholmes : 1 concert date in France this summer... #
Hickory Project : 2 concert dates # #