Thanks Charlie.
Thanks Charlie.
WOW!!! That's one amazing looking vintage mando! 2nd owner no less! I wish I had several thousand $$$ sitting around for a mando right now... I would love to own that instrument.Originally Posted by
Paul Doubek
"... beauty is not found in the excessive but what is lean and spare and subtle" - Terry Tempest Williams
I agree with Charlie, looks all original. I saw that one last night and made the appropriate Whoaaaaa noise. Very clean. One hint on stuff like that is a complete lack of scuffs on the case too!
I suspect that mandolin has a Virzi in it too..just not mentioned in the listing
Darryl G. Wolfe, The F5 Journal
www.f5journal.com
Dan,
There are many observant people commenting on these instruments, people who who know something about these instruments. I love irony, and found that one of your pics on this thread indicated an unusual location for the "flowerpot".
Alan
heheh, yes.. that is also a flowerpot
Darryl- I'll bet you $20 there's no virzi, it'd have the rounded end '25 tuners if so
A few Black Face Gibson I had laying around.
Conrad
Conrad
Wow. That is one awesome collection.
come on Dan...see 78660..arrow ends, Virzi, only a few numbers laterOriginally Posted by (danb @ June 02 2005, 15:31)
Darryl G. Wolfe, The F5 Journal
www.f5journal.com
doh
Dan:
You still win the $20. No Virzi--I checked with the seller. Were arrow ended tuners just used for a very short period on the A4's?
Phil Laub
Most of the A4/Virzi ones I know of have the '25 style rounded tuners. There are some anomalies, but Snakehead a4 rarely = virzi.. it was an option, not standard.
Arrow-end tuners roughly correspond to late '22 through end of '24, almost exactly the Loar period. Some snakes have the earlier style (like mine!) and a few have the later ones with the rounded ends..
Snakes with earlier style tuners, ie notched end, have had them replaced. Arrow end tuners definately appear on A4's that have Virzi's.
I disagree Ken, serials roughly between 70000 and 72000 will have notched ones, arrow-ends after that.. There is no evidence that my snakehead (71261) had the tuners replaced..
Here's 71462:
71598:
71249 (same batch as my 71261) also had identical tuners and the peghead "lips" were smaller as in my personal one.. and the F4 pictured earlier in this thread also has the notched tuners
As for the virzi with arrow ends, you guys are all right.. there are some of them. There is a cluster of them, however, with the "bump end" style like so
80618:
81564:
The notched end tuners vrs the arrow end tuners follows the same timeline as F5's and any other applicable instrument. Arrow end tuners appeared enmass early to mid 23. I've seen Feb 23 mandos both ways. Dan is right, the majority of Virzi A4's appears to be the "25" ones with the later tuners. But there were '24's with arrow ends too. I owe Dan $10 since it doesn't have a Virze (but there were Virzi A4's with arrow ends)
Darryl G. Wolfe, The F5 Journal
www.f5journal.com
They used what they had when they had it.
I've seen snakehead 4s with all three tuner configurations and although they do seem to follow a rough time-line, it appears that they just used what was handy at the time.
Charlie
These 2 shots shows nicely two variations between roughly 71xxx and 72xxx.. Shape of peghead top, and tuners used
Front..
Pretty similar otherwise!
I'm going to respectfully disagree. Snakehead A4's, especially, should not have notched end tuners, unless they're changed.
Fluer dis lis, or later Waverly's for sure.
Having said that, I don't really think it's a big deal, but, there are a lot of spare parts floating around auction sites. They come from somewhere.
OK, there is no real argument here. That is because they made no snakehead A-4's until well into 1923..when they more or less ran out of the notch ended ones. My 73001 has a paddle head with arrow ends, 72795 is the earliest snake A-4. It should be noted that A-4 73656 is a snakehead and does have original notch end tuners. I see no more after that. It is probably the only one, and as Charlie said, "they used what they had". One set of tuners within only a month or so..big deal
Darryl G. Wolfe, The F5 Journal
www.f5journal.com
I can assure you, these have not been changed
Darryl G. Wolfe, The F5 Journal
www.f5journal.com
It could be Ken, I suppose. The thing that makes me think they are original is the fact that they correspond to the serialization though, after around 73000 I've only seen a few.. my take on it was that whatever was in stock had to get used up eventually.. that sort of thinking helps explain some of the oddball Loars and later with interestingly different hardware, or finish.. or features. I personally think that there is a "trend" to features, where "most" have a certain set before serial XX, and most have a different after.. but if you find another box of notched end ones late in the game they'll get used, etc.
Personally, I think the arrow-ends were a new thing to the Loar specs, and they started rolling them out as the old stock of parts dried up. Same applies for some of the curious hold-over paddle-heads into the snake era!
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