Lenzner or Calace strings

[girldingo]

I will be changing the strings on my American Conservatory bowlback - currently they have Thomastiks. #I have purchased Lenzner consorts and Dogal/Calace dolce strings and don't know which to try first. #Do you have any opinions regarding the tonal quality and performance of these strings? #I don't want to replicate the Thomastik sound - i'd like to try something different.

[Martin Jonas]

Be aware that both of these sets are known to take considerable to time to settle in after restringing (and are then very long-lived indeed), so you should give each of them a few weeks of regular playing before making up your mind.

I'm a happy Lenzner user, but have not tried the Dogals (still looking for a UK source), so maybe I'm not the best advisor. However, one consideration may be that the Dogals, like the Thomastiks, are stainless steel, whereas the Lenzners are phosphor bronze. I would think the contrast in tone to what you're used to is likely larger with the Lenzners.

Martin

[vkioulaphides]

You have nothing to worry about, girldingo: both/either Dogals and Lenzners will sound TOTALLY unlike the Thomastiks; this, however, certainly does not mean that the two brands will sound anything like EACH OTHER.

I love both kinds of strings, although I have gravitated towards Lenzners over the past couple of years. It is, of course, impossible for me (or anyone) to preempt your own taste. Try them both, either one first, and see which one(s) you like best. After that, after you develop your taste aurally and digitally, you will be all set.

On "digital" taste, please note that Lenzners and Dogals also FEEL totally different under the fingers.

Cheers,

Victor

[Vinaccia]

Hi Victor,
Could you describe the difference in feel under the fingers between the Lenzer and Dogal stings? And what eventually made you lean towards Lenzers over the Dogals? Thanks

[Jim Garber]

I use the Dogal Calace on my Calace (natch!) and my Pandini. Dolce on the former and medio on the latter. I put Lenzners on my Demeglio. The Lenzners are (I think) phosphor bronze whereas the Dogal Calaces are carbon steel. #I think I would lean toward the Lenzners to start and see how you do with them. Let us know how you do.

Jim

[vkioulaphides]

[QUOTE]"Could you describe the difference in feel under the fingers between the Lenzer and Dogal stings? And what eventually made you lean towards Lenzers over the Dogals?"

Greetings, Jonathan.

Let us, first, cast Thomastiks aside: yes, they ARE in fact flatwound, and therefore make a bowed-string player like myself right at home (all OUR strings are obviously flatwound; bratsche has eloquently written about why SHE likes them as much as she does). On Italian bowlbacks, however, they sound awfully dull, plus they exert an unacceptable burden on the soundboard.

Now,then: Dogals (i.e. the wound Gs and Ds) are NOT polished, so that the ridges of the winding are very, very rough. When you shift, you get some of that swishy-swashy sound guitarists are damned with to eternity. (Needless to say, they work diligently to avoid it.) Lenzners ARE polished, so they feel much, much smoother under the fingers.

Dogals are also thicker-- plain and simple; you will obviously meet with more resistance under your fingerpads. I know, it does sound ridiculous that a bass-player like myself, wrestling with steel-core cabletows for a living, would ever be bothered by such infinitesimal differences. Still, even the slighest discrepancy on the mandolin, a naturally tiny instrument, makes a HUGE difference in the feel.

Yet ultimately my choice was predicated more by sound than by feel. For as much as I love the smooth, slinky feel of the Lenzners, it is their sound that has enchanted me. Something, SOMEthing I am not qualified to explain, makes bronze-wound strings sound like what "the mandolin OUGHT to sound" in the sum total of my life-long experience with the instrument. I can say nothing more or better than this...

In other words, I am sold on bronze. The real choice for me is not Dogals vs. Lenzners but high-quality bronze-wounds (e.g. Lenzner) and rather, ehm... non-descript bronze-wounds (e.g. GHS). Thus the choice ultimately boils down to a no-brainer.

Cheers,

Victor

P.S. girldingo, I must emphatically second Martin: Lenzners will sound WRETCHEDLY off-balance while brand-new; please do not let that drive you to despair (it did so in my case, until I... grew patient). They will need a good 2-3 weeks of daily playing before they even out.

[Vinaccia]

Hi Victor,

Thanks for the helpful explanation. I have tried the Dogals once but was so put off by the tone I took them off after one week. The next time I try the Lenzers or Dogals I will take the above advice and give them a good 3 to 4 weeks of daily playing to break in before passing judgment.

[Jim Garber]

Jonathan:
What strings do you use for your two stellar bowlbacks?

BTW I think the choice of strings for any mandolin depends on the instrument. I had an American bowlback that i thought was too strident (not Stridente) and thought it would mellow it out to try some TIs on it. On the other hand, i played a friend's Pandini with TIs and I hated the sound compared with the Calaces which is what they are strung with by the maker.

I haven't tried Lenzners on my Pandini because I prob need to get medium gauge for it rather than the light.

Jim

[vkioulaphides]

Oh, good heavens, Jonathan... yes, YES! When you first put Lenzners on, the first impression is HORRIBLE! The Gs sound light and thin, brittle indeed; the Ds sound so OUTRAGEOUSLY bright and brassy that you wonder how they will ever mellow out; the As (aluminum-flatwound; I am speaking of the Consort set), hopelessly, abysmally dull and opaque; the Es, no different than any others.

But, ah, what difference a few weeks can make! The Ds DO in fact mellow out beautifully, coming to match the As, as THEY in turn "come alive" in a way that is nothing short of miraculous; the Gs "fill up", as it were, and the Es retain their brilliance for months on end. A wonderful, wonderful final result!

Au contraire, Dogals, although they last just as long as Lenzners, they go irretrievably dull at some point: their "boom" degenerates into a non-descript "thud"; no way back from that. They will stay on and remain playable for an eternity but... Certainly not a sound I care to hear coming out of my mandolin. To be fair, though, the Dogals' punch cannot be matched by the more pliant bronzewounds, ANY bronzewounds of a reasonable, light gauge.

Having said all that, de gustibus...

Cheers,

Victor

[Eugene]

I really like the way my Martin responded to Lenzner's Consort strings. One of my Vega mandolins was not so fond of them. In general, the Martin has a rather stiff and focused tone. Vega seems to favor a broader bass response. On the Vega, I thought the Lenzners sounded unpalatably "clangy" with a rather sloppy bass. Still, I really did like their sound on my Martin.

Here is my practical advice du jour, girldingo. Of course, try each make to gauge your own preference, and do give each plenty of time and play for break in as recommended. Try the Lenzner Consort set first because the wound a' strings will not be nearly so long-lived as Dogal's carbon steel. Thus, you can get to both sets a little sooner.

[Martin Jonas]

Here is my practical advice du jour, girldingo. Of course, try each make to gauge your own preference, and do give each plenty of time and play for break in as recommended. Try the Lenzner Consort set first because the wound a' strings will not be nearly so long-lived as Dogal's carbon steel.

Yes, that was one thing I also wanted to mention: in my experience, the wound a' string is less long-lived than the plain a' string of the equivalent Lenzner "Bronce Medium" set, which is what I use. My problem was that the delicate aluminium windings started to unravel eventually where they met the frets. Still, that was after about six months of playing, so it's not exactly short-lived.

Martin

[girldingo]

I must thank all of you for sharing your string knowledge with me. I received the Lenzner consort strings today and I will take the groups advice and put them on my American Conservatory and won't make any judgements until a month has passed.
Perhaps I will put the Dogal set on my "brooklyn mandolin" made by L. Palermo.

Ciao,
Girldingo

[Eugene]

Also, I should have clarified that Dogal's "Calace" carbon steel are my usual strings of choice. I love the sound of a "matured" set and I love the extreme longevity.

[PlayerOf8]

The last two sets of Lenzner Consort strings I used must have been made just before the end of the shift. They were the worse strings I have ever heard. The A string wasn't true in a range of pitch. I'm back using Dogals on everything flat or with a bowl.
Does anyone know who is making the GOLDSTAL brand of mandolin strings? A fellow passed through here with a set on his Calace and they were pretty nice.

G

[Martin Jonas]

Do you mean Goldfuchs, rather than Goldstal? Goldfuchs is the old GDR-era name for what is now Lenzner. However, their strings were reportedly somewhat different from the current Lenzners. Ralf Leenen has said here that he and his Brussels orchestra still have a big stash of 1980s Goldfuchs strings and use them exclusively on their Emberghers. Ralf specifies the make of strings for each of the tracks on his web site.

As I've said before, I use Lenzners plain-A set, rather than the Consort. I think some of the differences in opinion about the Consorts come from the flatwound A string, which is completely different in construction and in initial tonality when freshly strung from the bronze-wound bass strings. When I used the Consorts, it took a good two weeks for the wound A to become even acceptable; it's much faster than that with the plain A.

Martin

[jacky]

<I'm a happy Lenzner user, but have not tried the Dogals (still looking for a UK source), so maybe I'm not the best advisor.>

Martin, I recently bought 2 sets of Dogal "Calaces" in the UK. I got them from Richard Osborne of Lewes for a very reasonable price. If you would like his contact details, let me know. I haven't put them on yet, however, as I am still quite happy with the Lenzners I have on my Calace.

Jacky

[Martin Jonas]

Jacky -- yes, please: I should at least try them (probably first on the Vinaccia), to see how they compare.

Martin

[jacky]

Hi Martin,

Richard's web site doesn't seem to be functioning but you can e-mail him at richard@osbornemandolins.co.uk or phone him on 01273 473883. If you mention my name he will know which strings you want.

[Bob A]

FWIW, while I use both Calace and Lenzner strings, on the delicate-seeming brass-fretted instruments I would never use the Dogal strings: my fear is that the rough iron windings would wear gaps into the frets in no time.

In fairness, I haven't actually SEEN signs of wear on the instruments strung with Dogals (L&H, Calace, Vega & Vinaccia). The Dogal Calace "medio" strings are much coarser under the fingers than the "dolce" (rw92b) lightweights.

[onthefiddle]

Hi Jacky,

Are the Dogal strings you bought RW92B "dolce" (light gauge) with blue windings, or RW92 "medio" (medium gauge) with red windings?
I can get hold of the "medio" sets quite easily in the UK, through a distributor, but I'm unaware of any source for the "dolce" sets. I've considered importing them myself before now, but haven't had much luck in eliciting a response from Dogal (not unusual for some Italian businesses). A UK source for the "dolce" sets would certainly be welcome.

Jon

[vkioulaphides]

[QUOTE ]"I've considered importing them myself before now, but haven't had much luck in eliciting a response from Dogal (not unusual for some Italian businesses)."

Indeed, the (String) Merchants of Venice have a deaf "e-ear"; I have written to them directly via e-mail repeatedly, but to no avail... Perhaps paper-mail might work better, a fax, or a call; I have pursued it no further as I don't use their strings any more.

Best of luck to ye Dogal-seekers.

[jacky]

Hi Jacky,

Are the Dogal strings you bought RW92B "dolce" (light gauge) with blue windings, or RW92 "medio" (medium gauge) with red windings?
I can get hold of the "medio" sets quite easily in the UK, through a distributor, but I'm unaware of any source for the "dolce" sets. I've considered importing them myself before now, but haven't had much luck in eliciting a response from Dogal (not unusual for some Italian businesses). A UK source for the "dolce" sets would certainly be welcome.

Jon

The strings I have are, indeed, the RW92 mediums. Let me know when you start importing!

[John Bertotti]

The Lenzners I put on my Vega last time took at least three weeks of 1/2 hour a day playing to break in. The sound was completely wretched. For the first couple weeks to the point that I thought I had a bad set. Fortunately I was to lazy and working to much to think about changing them again. Good thing to because now I think they sound better then the first set I tried, of course that could be because they were so bad to start with. I won't use anything but Lenzners now on my bowl back.

[Rex]

The Dogal strings last a long time. I made the mistake (maybe) of getting extra sets and it will take me quite a while to use them up before I can try anything else.

[Jim Garber]

Rex:
If you want to sell off the extras, I have a large family of hungry bowlbacks to feed. I am sure that I or others of my ilk, can take some off your hands.

Jim