Congrats on the new shop Lynn!
Mine is still "under construction", (does that ever end?) some of the time. It's hard to think of everything, in order, and get it all done without wanting to change something later.
Congrats on the new shop Lynn!
Mine is still "under construction", (does that ever end?) some of the time. It's hard to think of everything, in order, and get it all done without wanting to change something later.
John Hamlett
www.hamlettinstruments.com
I build in a tin shed with a dirt floor. I have only a small amount of tools that are wore slap out. My body is wore slap out as well but building my own instruments is a dream come true for me. I also dream of that fully furnished shop but if I never get that shop, I will still be happy with what I have.
"If at first you don't succeed, then keep on suckin' till you do succeed."
Back when I was in college I would set up shop... wherever. There was the narrow back room where I would open the back and kitchen doors when I had to joint or rip stock (the kitchen table was my outfeed table... my roommate loved me!)Basements, storage units... my favorite was an old barn behind a small rental house but it took a 300,000 BTU heater to get it up to 35 F degrees in the winter. I covered the bulk of my college and living expenses with my woodwork. When I bought my first house I built a 2 car "garage" that the cars never got to park in; it was built exclusively as my shop.
Finding space to build a "hobby" shop for building instruments shouldn't be a big deal. It's different if you're planning on building a production shop as John and Lynn have done. You also want more space if you're building furniture or working with sheet goods. At the last local instrument builders meeting I was checking out an F-5 style mando that a guy used his CNC mill and gawd knows what else to "build". It was his second mando and an okay instrument... nothing special. I've seen much better work done by folks here on the Cafe with less experience and only basic tools. I liked another guy's philosophy at that meeting: "Don't use anything louder than the instrument to build the instrument." While I'm not ready to scrap my bandsaw and router, working with handtools is definately more intimate, meditative, gives you a better feel for the work, and requires less floor space.
pd
"... beauty is not found in the excessive but what is lean and spare and subtle" - Terry Tempest Williams
"Don't use anything louder than the instrument to build the instrument."
This individual has obviously never had to make a living working with wood! <G> I'm a firm believer in using whatever means it takes to get to the end. It's not the process, it's the product. As long as you allow your tools to serve your design, and you don't start making compromises to accomodate the use of your tools, be it a band saw or a CNC, you will be fine. I seriously doubt anyone can tell which of my instruments were made with the assistance of CNC and which ones were not. That's the goal. I'm not much into the "romance" of the process... I like the final product. Pass the earplugs please.
Lynn
Guys, you have helped me make up my mind - a shop (disguised as a garage), it is!!
I do have a proposition for Lynn and Big Joe. Since we are all three are involved in professions that allow people to waste gobs of valuable time (you clients playing music and mine playing golf (I'm a golf course architect)), I'll swap you a great golf trip to Pinehurst for --- nah, ya'll don't want to get hooked on golf or ya'll will become "worthless" like most of the rest of us that love the game. Anyway, Joe, I'm still trying to figure out how to get that blonde X-braced F-5 (that you were sworn to secrecy not to reveal) from you.
Lynn, you were a little vague on whether I should buy one of your f-5's or build my shop. Just kidding, I think I know what you were saying! Congrats on your new facility - the golf course construction industry is going through thew same price increases. I just finished a renovation where the concrete cart paths were built with $76 a yard concrete, only because the supplier held his six month old prices. Oil prices are driving up all the other petroleum based products like PVC irrigation pipe and plastic drain pipe.
I am honored that so many of you distinguished gentlemen have jumped in on this subject. Thanks again for everyone's advice!
Linksmaker
Links,
You already made up your mind, so good luck on your shop. I am building the shop as well, it is almost done, I called for the rough in electrical inspection last night, I wired it myself (hope it passes). I have built one and a half mandolins in the past, in a basement shop in our previous home, and have waited two years for the shop at our new house so I can finish that other half and more. I think my side of the story is that I will most likely never be able to play like Bush or Grisman (or about a million others) but I may be able to build something that I won't be ashamed to take out in public. Here's to both our shops, may they give us much pleasure in the years to come, (and maybe some good instruments too...)
jon
So many notes, so little time.
Lynn; I agree with your philosophy although I do appreciate the "romance" of woodworking with traditional hand tools. What I was trying to say is that if you're building as a hobby you don't need a shop designed for production. It turns into a different game if it's your bread and butter. You're right that in the end it's the product and not the process that counts but I think most folks would do well to put some edge tools to wood before deciding where a CNC mill makes sense. The "no louder than the instrument" guy refers to himself as an "experimental banjo builder" on MIMF and has done some great banjos, harps, and other instruments that I've seen and heard but for him it is a hobby rather than a vocation.Originally Posted by
Paul Doubek
"... beauty is not found in the excessive but what is lean and spare and subtle" - Terry Tempest Williams
Well Links, if you look at it from an investment standpoint, buying an upper end instrument (be it new or vinatge) or adding to your property value can both give you decent returns down the road. Either way, it's going to earn you more than having the money in the bank. The difference being, if you build the shop and decide later you don't want to build anymore, it's a lot easier to cash in the instrument than it is a permanent structure on your property. Now, if you have in mind other uses for the structure down the road, that's different. I'm building mine such that it could be converted to an apartment or garage in the unlikely event we ever move. If you've not built any instruments before, build a kit or a simple project to get your feet wet and see if you are going to like it first. If you do, build the shop. If you find you aren't that keen on the building process (or wind up with more cuts and bandaids on your fingers than you can count), save that construction money and buy the instrument of your dreams, whatever that may be. Either option can be a good investment, if you go into it "informed" and not based on a whim.
Lynn
Links... looking back at your orginal post, I see you have done quite a bit of luthier work, so I'd guess you are past the stage of deciding if you will like it or now! Just make sure your building can be converted at a later date for other uses.
Lynn
Lynn- good to know you're moved and set up. I was thinking of you last weekend as my wife and drove through Maryville, Alcoa, down to Hedrick Chapel (near Smokey Mt Nt Park- just past Townsend)- I said- "man, I should have called Lynn- Maybe we could have gotten together for a bit, see his new shop". It was not meant to be this time. Our purpose for visiting was not mando related.
Good advice, I believe by all. Much to consider. You can buy one fine mando for far less than a shop costs to set up really well, especially if you want to squeeze in a little CNC. I think it depends on how much you want to own a really fine instrument by "quick" standards. Takes a long time to develop the skills to do what people like Lynn are doing. But the rewards of learning and playing what you've made by your own hands is something that cannot be bought. Now when you get to merge the two. The goal.
Glad you had the time, or took it anyway, to chime in here Lynn. Coming to IBMA for even a visit? It's only about 4 hours away............
Dale Ludewig
http://www.ludewigmandolins.com
Hi Dale! You were about 15 minutes away from my place when you were coming thru Maryville! I've got walls up for the new shop, but no trusses yet. Won't be long though. I may come to IBMA for the day on Sat., but it will be a quick trip if I make it. Depends on what is going on here.
Lynn
When I felt this surge of destiny in 7th grade wood shop, I knew. Now at 51, I walk into my 24 X 32, fully equipped shop, set up for building and repairing instruments, I am at peace. It is all I have ever wanted and I feel so fortunate to have it. It came with a lot of hard work and dreams but I have it and including my wonderful family, and my teaching, it is my world. I am not a world reknown luthier nor do I expect to ever be one. The inner peace that I have received from my craft that I am dedicated to
will always be there.
I tell my classes, The best teacher they will ever have is themselves. When they are ready to learn they will teach themselves.
I didn't mean to get philosophical on all of you, but I am sure you all know what I mean. I have learned from all of you as well.
There is nothing like taking some wood, glue and strings, putting them together in such a way to make music, which by the way I need to do more of as well. I have not played as much as I used to but building has given me just as much pleasure.
Don
http://www.donkawalek.com
"The only thing achieved in life without effort is failure."
Dum Vixi Tacui Mortua Dulce Cano
Jon - here's to you as well! Good luck!
Well, I am definitely energized. I do want to clear up one thing. I am a collector, as well as a player (although I think the comment that Jon made about "playing like Bush or Grisman" is right smack on the money), I still one day want to own a Dudenbostel, a Ludwig, a Hamlett, (basically one each from every maker on earth). Me, building my own, is different from owning beautiful instruments made by others. I am still going to buy stuff from you guys!
Linksmaker
.....and although I have built just about every other stringed instrument, as soon as I get a chance, I shall undertake an F5 as many have asked me to do....LOL.
Don
http://www.donkawalek.com
"The only thing achieved in life without effort is failure."
Dum Vixi Tacui Mortua Dulce Cano
Hey Links....if you buy "Blondie" I could afford to build my shop
Lynn...I was in Maryville last week on my way back to Nashville. I told my wife we should stop and see you, but alas, not enough time. Something about having to get back to work. Oh well, I guess work has to get in the way from time to time. Hope to see you at IBMA.
Have a Great Day!
Joe Vest
Joe... we are in the book! Give me a shout next time you are over this way.
Dude
Joe, even though it does not exist - I have played it (in Winston-Salem). I have a feeling I would have to pry it from your cold hands!
Linksmaker
I took the build-the-shop path about three years ago and haven't regretted it. I've a wonderful mando to play (which I built), #2 & #3 are getting close to completion, I've started building violins again, am finishing a viola, and am dying to redesign mandolin #3--my own design.
Enjoy,
Chris
I can relate to this, although I do not claim in any way that I am in Frank's league. #I REALLY enjoy working in the shop tho, it's as important as the end result. #It's not like I have to do this, I do it because I really want to. I also used to play a lot, now I usually find myself in the shop instead of practicing whenever I can.
Arnt Rian
Rian gitar og mandolin
As a finish carpenter and cabinetmaker fulltime, I have a shop already and have slowly aquired a lot of the tools necessary to build a instrument....I even have the wood for heavens sake, but I still find myself purusing ebay or the newspaper for old vintage instruments and spending my time repairing and setting them up vs building a new one. Why? Well im not sure but have a few ideas...scared of ruining my wood that I searched high and low for, TIME itself, Im busy with work, home-life etc. but I think it may boil down to the pleasure I get from taking a non-playing work of art and bringing it back to life. #I've learned a LOT along the way that im sure will help me when I finally start my first mandolin or tenor guitar. I'll probably #build the guitar first, since then the carving aspect will be removed. I just finished restoring a 1914 Gibson A1 that came out perfect and one of my next project's is a Howe Orme mandolinetta that I've been scared to start cuz I don't wanna mess it up...there are just too few around but I think Im ready and able to pull it off now.
# A few key points I'll make are 1. your first may not look perfect but may sound great. 2. Your second may look perfect but not sound worth a darn. 3. You'll be having fun and learning either way! #
# When I head to the shop to work on a instrument it's a fun drive, when I head there to build a cabinet, mantle, or something it's just like goin to work...heck it is work!
So I'd say buy or build are both great ideas and worthy of your money but getting the works of art and sound a Gil or Dude produce will take a lot of work or a LOT of luck! I, too, find myself at the shop instead of pickin so beware of that aspect of the equation also!!!
OK there's my $8.00 on the subject should anyone care...
Look up (to see whats comin down)
That says a lot. #I started to try and build a mandolin a couple of years ago, but I have abandoned the project for some of the same reasons. #The wood I have I got from my parents' farm, which has been sold, so once it is gone it is gone. #Some of us find more satisfaction trying to learn how to play I guess, but aren't we all thankful for those of you who can make these beautiful instruments.
Ah! must --
Designer Infinite --
Ah! must thou char the wood 'ere thou canst limn with it ?
--Francis Thompson
More great advice guys. I am amazed at the number of posts that this topic has generated, but in retrospect, I think it shows the "passion" that building these works of art generates. It may not even be a passion for the final product, but for the process. Some of you obviously love the relaxation that you get from working in your shops, where guys like Lynn are working toward and end. I am also sure that Lynn loves what he is doing.
Bottom line is that there are a lot of reasons to do it (all good)!
Linksmaker
I really do enjoy the process too... not just the final product. #But, it's the final product, and seeing the joy it brings someone that is the real excitement for me. #
Lynn
Hi Lynn!
Hey neighbor! You going to IBMA?
Dude
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