Left Wrist Placement

[kurth83]

When playing classical music I find the guitar way easier.

I see classical players (Catarina Lichtenberg), placing her thumb in the guitar way (matching what carl23 showed), and she is able to effortlessly vary the angle of the fingers from 0 to 45 degrees relative to the frets. And when using 45 degrees, the base of the index finger does touch the fretboard, but the classic 'pinch' of thumb and index finger doesn't really seem to be happen. That binds of the freedom of motion of the left hand for work that requires fingers parallel to the frets because a clumsy thumb position switch would be needed. Her wrist is flat however, there is no guitar-like bent wrist. She stresses that not all hands are the same and you have to adapt for what you have, she has long thin fingers which are perfect for classical mandolin playing.

But if I need to chop, the standard neck-pinch way is the only way I can reach the G chop chord. And the neck-pinch way gives me more endurance for the constant pressure of three or four fingers on the fretboard.. So I try to keep both methods worked up.

I like using barre chords, and using those requires the 45 to 0 degree switch to achieve fingers parallel to the fretboard, so the guitar way allows me to drop into a barre chord easily.

Classical mandolins are also strung very lightly and are shorter scale compared to bluegrass ones. The reduced fretting pressure avoids injuries you could sustain while playing a heavier strung instrument in the guitar way..

I am using a longer scale oval-hole myself (for classical), but put on ultra-light strings and achieve about the same fretting pressure as lights would on the shorter scale length.

I also find the v-neck cuts into my thumb when using the guitar method, I have a C-neck mando on order, but for now I am using the 'SoftNek' product from softnek.com to hold me over.

[Carl23]

I'm a bit confused by your use of the word "grip". In my approach, which I believe is the classical one, I simply bring my fretting hand to the instrument - I don't hold or support the neck. I wonder why that doesn't come naturally to you. Seems to me that you have to constantly arch your wrist inwards, whereas I only do that on barre chords.

Probably an issue on my communication.

As a drummer, "grip" generally just means "how I hold my hand". It does not mean that there is much pressure. Which I can easily see as being implied with that word choice.

Like you I bring my hand to the instrument, the contact on the back of the neck is to give my fingers something to press against. also for adding pressure for chords. I do my best NOT to support the instrument with my left hand. sometimes I find myself doing it, but I stop when I do.

I've been particularly looking at the wrist angle due to peoples comments. I check often and with rare occastion it is flat. Sometimes if I start to get tense I'll drop my hand and reset, checking the wrist in particular. Other than that I tend to move my arm/elbow to change angles rather than my writst. Sometimes this changes the angle of my instrument.

Thanks for the feedback.

C

[Carl23]

When playing classical music I find the guitar way easier.

I see classical players (Catarina Lichtenberg), placing her thumb in the guitar way (matching what carl23 showed), and she is able to effortlessly vary the angle of the fingers from 0 to 45 degrees relative to the frets. And when using 45 degrees, the base of the index finger does touch the fretboard, but the classic 'pinch' of thumb and index finger doesn't really seem to be happen. That binds of the freedom of motion of the left hand for work that requires fingers parallel to the frets because a clumsy thumb position switch would be needed. Her wrist is flat however, there is no guitar-like bent wrist. She stresses that not all hands are the same and you have to adapt for what you have, she has long thin fingers which are perfect for classical mandolin playing.

But if I need to chop, the standard neck-pinch way is the only way I can reach the G chop chord. And the neck-pinch way gives me more endurance for the constant pressure of three or four fingers on the fretboard.. So I try to keep both methods worked up.

I like using barre chords, and using those requires the 45 to 0 degree switch to achieve fingers parallel to the fretboard, so the guitar way allows me to drop into a barre chord easily.

Classical mandolins are also strung very lightly and are shorter scale compared to bluegrass ones. The reduced fretting pressure avoids injuries you could sustain while playing a heavier strung instrument in the guitar way..

I am using a longer scale oval-hole myself (for classical), but put on ultra-light strings and achieve about the same fretting pressure as lights would on the shorter scale length.

I also find the v-neck cuts into my thumb when using the guitar method, I have a C-neck mando on order, but for now I am using the 'SoftNek' product from softnek.com to hold me over.

Interesting point about the string weight, I definitly like ligher strings.

I've messed with chop chords, and so far have not had issues using the "guitar" style. However, I've been focusing on melodic and double-stop work. Standar chords have not been an issue, and in some cases I've found the guitar style helps me change chords faster because my hand is not as tense. will see what happens when I start messing with the chop chords, I have a few stretching exercises that I am working on, I'm hoping that will help.

Interesting about the v-neck (which I think is what I have) I find it quite comfortable and I like how it allows me to control the pressure across the fretboard from one position.

Thanks,
C

[JeffD]

First part I get and will try. Can you explain this quoted part? I'm not sure I understand the "ring finger one fret below where the pink is to land"...?
How does that help the pinkie?

The pinky seems stronger the closer it is to the ring finger. By deploying the ring finger, the pinky is not that far away.

I have taken to thinking of the pinky not as an independent finger, actually, but as a pet of the third finger. Kind of a small dog on a leash. Deploy the ring finger close by (within the length of the leash of the pinky).

[ralph johansson]

When playing classical music I find the guitar way easier.

I see classical players (Catarina Lichtenberg), placing her thumb in the guitar way (matching what carl23 showed), and she is able to effortlessly vary the angle of the fingers from 0 to 45 degrees relative to the frets. And when using 45 degrees, the base of the index finger does touch the fretboard, but the classic 'pinch' of thumb and index finger doesn't really seem to be happen. That binds of the freedom of motion of the left hand for work that requires fingers parallel to the frets because a clumsy thumb position switch would be needed. Her wrist is flat however, there is no guitar-like bent wrist. She stresses that not all hands are the same and you have to adapt for what you have, she has long thin fingers which are perfect for classical mandolin playing.

"The guitar way" is a bit misleading since the back of the neck of a mandolin is nothing like the back of the neck of a guitar. A classical guitar is 2 inches wide at the nut, a mandolin is about 1 1/4 or 1 3/16. If your thumb lands naturally on the back of the neck of a classical guitar, it lands just as naturally on the side on a mandolin. This, in fact, is the case with Lichtenberg - there's a YouTube video shot from above showing this. But her thumb is bent backwards and not visible above the fretboard.

Just a quirk of anatomy, I suppose. All hands are different. The reason I have almost no control over my left thumb is that one of the tendons controlling it - the one nearest to the index finger - is missing. It was torn in an accident.

[Carl23]

"The guitar way" is a bit misleading since the back of the neck of a mandolin is nothing like the back of the neck of a guitar. A classical guitar is 2 inches wide at the nut, a mandolin is about 1 1/4 or 1 3/16. If your thumb lands naturally on the back of the neck of a classical guitar, it lands just as naturally on the side on a mandolin. This, in fact, is the case with Lichtenberg - there's a YouTube video shot from above showing this. But her thumb is bent backwards and not visible above the fretboard.

Just a quirk of anatomy, I suppose. All hands are different. The reason I have almost no control over my left thumb is that one of the tendons controlling it - the one nearest to the index finger - is missing. It was torn in an accident.

what I find with "the guitar way" is that if you place your thumb on the back of the neck, your hand is significantly more "open" than on a guitar. for me this makes my hand quite relaxed compared to guitar or the thumb on top grip of mando.
Similar position as guitar, but not the same.

C

[Rdeane]

I have a pinky that flies up and doesn't seem to want to stay down when it's not fretting. I can consciously force it to stay a bit down, but then nothing else can happen accurately on the left hand. I am considering using a rubber band to hold the pinky to the ring finger loosely and playing that way for a while. What thoughts do you have on whether or not that may train the pinky or just be an annoyance?