Tougher mandolin

[Cochiti Don]

Hi again. I love my Collings MTO, but it’s too sensitive to humidity changes and and in-case humidifier is inadequate for the job. I had problems with it before with the neck bending backwards and making the 12th and 13th frets unplayable. Well, it’s happening again after careful handling and re-humidifying. The only thing that worked was putting a damp sponge wrapped in plastic into the sound hole. Now I’ve put a small crack in the body due to that technique.
I’m done with this. <Removed by Moderator. Please feel free to put that in a Classified Ad.> Sigh........

My apologies to the moderator. I would just like some advice on a a tougher mandolin, perhaps one not made in the US.

[pops1]

Don, sorry to hear about the mandolin problems. I am not sure the humidifier caused the crack, more the dryness. Is it dry most of the time or do you have humid times too. If it is mostly dry, is there a builder anywhere near enough to you that builds mandolins. A mandolin built in the same environment that you live in may be the answer. It will be dry when built and able to withstand the dry environment.

[BrianWilliam]

Hey Don,

I'm in a dry climate too and in my experience, acoustic instruments eventually settle down. You just have to set aside some money for planing the fretboard.

How long has your MTO been in NM?

[MikeEdgerton]

Boy, I know this entire process all too well except mine happens with guitars. I have Martins and other brands that are fine and require no special attention. I have an old Taylor (that I've had for decades) that requires almost daily attention. One thing, keep them in their cases and the case closed when not in use. Then all you have to worry about is keeping the atmosphere inside the case right.

[yankees1]

Really dry in NM as well as AZ ! When we go to AZ for the winter I always place a room humidifier in the room where I play/practice ! I keep the room between 40-60 humidity. No cracking or tuning problems ! Keeping the humidity between 40-60 doesn't help my playing though !

[lflngpicker]

I live in a semi arid climate and it is dry and hot in the summer. I have a 42 year old Guild D55 that plays like the day I bought it. I do have a fine crack in the headstock of my old Gibson A, but generally I haven't had any issues with my guitars including a National M-2 and a vintage 12 string. Mike is right about keeping instruments in cases. I have always done that very thing and I think it has protected all of my guitars and mandolins. I am glad to hear Mike say this but so sorry that Don's Collings mandolin has had these serious issues. That has to be a heartbreaker.

[Cochiti Don]

Hey Don,

I'm in a dry climate too and in my experience, acoustic instruments eventually settle down. You just have to set aside some money for planing the fretboard.

How long has your MTO been in NM?

I bought it in August of last year at the mandolin store in AZ. So it’s been here for 9-10 months. I Left it out at first and that caused the main problem. It’s dry here in Cochiti Lake, NM

[multidon]

Just buy a nice all laminate mandolin, like a Rogue. No more humidity cracks.

Or maybe consider carbon fiber.

[desertnight]

Hi Don,

I live in southern NM and watch the humidity issue constantly (sometimes single digits). As said by Yankees1 you really need to run a humidifier 24/7. A small room even better and crank it up. You won't have to worry about mold in NM even during the monsoon season. I keep a Dampit in my mandolins and that seems to help some while playing. I like the Oasis case humidifier but it is not enough. You've got to run a humidifier too!

I tour frequently and sometimes that may require a bit of adjustment with the action. East coast in the summer I will from time to time end up lowering my action as the humidity saturates the instrument then upon returning to the dry climate I may need to raise the action a bit. These changes happen slowly over a couple of weeks. But when I run the humidifier constantly I rarely need to make the adjustments mentioned above because the mando is in a more constant condition humidity wise.

Of course try to keep the instrument in a room that does not change temp. rapidly or extremely thru the day and night if possible and away from windows and woodstoves.

Good luck, I hope this helps. Steve

[multidon]

Ok, so, seriously, I think carbon fiber is the answer here. Not sure who’s making them. Is MAD Mix still making them? I know there was a thread not that long ago where Marty Jacobson reported experimenting with a prototype.

I also play hammered dulcimer, and in that world laminate construction has been long accepted. Consensus is that solid wood sounds better of course, but the tone quality of high quality Baltic birch is considered quite good and virtually crack proof, quite stable. This materusl is also known as “aircraft grade” because there are virtually no voids. In other words, definitely not your local big box lumber plywood. Not even close. I wonder why this material has not been explored for other acoustic instruments?

Another trend we are starting to see in dulcimer and harp construction is solid wood reinforced with carbon fiber. I have seen designs where the wood was “wrapped” with a carbon fiber shell then put under vacuum to insure void free bonding. There would be no humidity worries with that, and sound quality is reported as excellent. You only see this done on high end harps and dulcimers by respected luthiers.

We see carbon fiber guitars of course. But it seems like the ultra traditional mandolin world is behind on innovation. Harpers and dulcimists can be very conservative too, but these newer construction methods have been embraced there.

If one could make a truly good sounding laminate, carbon fiber, or composite instrument, it would immune to humidity issues and the best of all possible worlds. I will now wait for all you instrument makers to tell me to go to my corner because it just can’t be done.

[Charles E.]

Old Wave makes some nice looking mandolins and they are made in NM........

http://www.oldwavemandolins.com/

[Cochiti Don]

Boy, I know this entire process all too well except mine happens with guitars. I have Martins and other brands that are fine and require no special attention. I have an old Taylor (that I've had for decades) that requires almost daily attention. One thing, keep them in their cases and the case closed when not in use. Then all you have to worry about is keeping the atmosphere inside the case right.

Yes, I’ve been doing just that. The oasis tube is the only thing that fits in my tight case and it does not do the job. My house is basically one very large room with tall ceilings. I wish I had a dedicated music room.

[Roger Adams]

I also live in the Land of Enchantment. I run three humidifiers 24/7, and still have trouble keeping the humidity above 40%. I keep all of my instruments in a small bedroom with a dedicated humidifier. It's the only solution to the problem that I have found.

[MikeEdgerton]

Yes, I’ve been doing just that. The oasis tube is the only thing that fits in my tight case and it does not do the job. My house is basically one very large room with tall ceilings. I wish I had a dedicated music room.

Find or build yourself a nice steamer trunk and put it in the corner with your mandolin case inside. Now humidify the trunk. Kind of like a humidor for your mandolin(s).

[pheffernan]

Old Wave makes some nice looking mandolins and they are made in NM........

Old Wave was my first thought as well. I also believe that Chris Stanley, though of Wisconsin, intentionally builds in a low humidity environment.

[catmandu2]

Boy, I know this entire process all too well except mine happens with guitars. I have Martins and other brands that are fine and require no special attention. I have an old Taylor (that I've had for decades) that requires almost daily attention. One thing, keep them in their cases and the case closed when not in use. Then all you have to worry about is keeping the atmosphere inside the case right.

Yup. My problem is (also residing out west) my large wire harp. Nylon harps, hammered dulcimers, fretted strings, et al, not a big problem - they're quite a bit more stable. But my large wire harp - solid walnut - is extremely sensitive to humidity fluctuations, so it ends up staying at home. I used to use it for hospice work but after about 10 or 15 minutes I'd have to start tweeking. Unfortunately this harp has to stay home...ive never owned such an instrument that required so much effort and commitment.

I have a smaller wire, also solid walnut, that doesn't share this extreme sensitivity - but it's only 1/3 its size, so while it's more portable it also lacks the performance characteristics of the larger.

Were i to select a new one I'd go carbon fbr, except that I've not seen them in wire yet.

[MikeEdgerton]

My Taylor lives with two of these constantly in the instrument inside the leak-resistant saddle bags.

It keeps it in decent shape and I figured out how to rejuvenate the packets. As they get used up they dry out into hard pellets.

[NursingDaBlues]

I would just like some advice on a a tougher mandolin, perhaps one not made in the US.

Wait! “Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.”

I realize that it can be frustrating to invest a substantial sum into an instrument and end up with a crack/cracks or varying degrees of repair because of humidification issues.

First off, a crack is not the end of the world. It can be easily repaired with no major impact on tone.

Secondly, it doesn’t matter where the mandolin comes from. Wood is wood. And any wood will react to fluctuations in humidity – unfortunately some more radically than others.


Without going into the humidification practices that I use, allow me to offer these observations: I have five Weber mandolins; four built in Montana, one in Oregon. The Montana instruments like it dry – they sound and play best around 30% RH. My Martin guitars on the other hand do their best around 40%. Could be because of the different locations in which they were built; I don’t know and won’t speculate. An acquaintance that lives in Colorado purchased a Collings MT2, humidified with an Oasis, and it experienced a top crack within its first 6 months. Others I know with Collings, though, have not had any issues.

I guess much of it just boils down to the piece of wood that was used.

Here are a couple of links regarding humidification. Not quite opposite ends of the spectrum, but with different points of view.

https://www.montanalutherie.com/drea...umidification/

https://www.taylorguitars.com/sites/...aDryGuitar.pdf

You’ve got a nice mandolin. Hang on to it. Just choose a good maintenance routine and stick to it.

[dan in va]

There are a few northern mandolin makers who only build in the winter. Chris Stanley is one, and he requests that his mandolins NOT be humidified. My #62 is very stable and the action doesn't change very much from winter to summer. i really like not having to worry about it drying out, and this was a big part of the criteria that helped me chose a builder.

40% relative humidity is the magic number for the majority of builders, and they have their reasons that i won't argue, but the old Martins and Gibsons suit me fine. i strongly prefer instruments made in low humidity.

[Marty Jacobson]

40% relative humidity is the magic number for the majority of builders, and they have their reasons that i won't argue....

It's just that 45% or so can theoretically be achieved and maintained anywhere in the world.
If you build at very low humidity, say under 20%, and then bring the mandolin to Georgia... good luck. It's 69% RH here today... it was a dry, sunny day, not a cloud in sight. It'll be 50% RH with the heat going in the house in the winter.
So far nobody's made a case-sized dehumidifier, but humidifiers on the other hand are pretty simple and work pretty well.

[Louise NM]

Don, how disappointing.

For those of you who've in normal places, Northern New Mexico hasn't had any real precipitation since October. It's always dry here, but this winter has been terrifying.

There is a maker in Albuquerque, and a couple people on the Café rave about his instruments. Here is his link. His name is Keith Edward Coleman, his instruments look nice, and from the looks of his website he has put a lot of thought into what he does. Something made at this humidity level might be better for you.

I'm fascinated by the links NursingDaBlues posted above. There doesn't seem to be real agreement about whether or not to humidify. At least here it is constantly dry. Going from swampy summers to overheated winters seems to be the worst.

[BrianWilliam]

Yes, I’ve been doing just that. The oasis tube is the only thing that fits in my tight case and it does not do the job. My house is basically one very large room with tall ceilings. I wish I had a dedicated music room.

Have you considered a larger case?

[dan in va]

There seem to be far fewer complaints of overhumidification than the effects of dehydration, but maybe fewer instruments are built in the dry conditions i prefer. It could be that folks aren't on their game of keeping the wood adequately hydrated, but there sure are lots of unhappy newly cracked instrument owners out there. i don't like the hassle of babying new instruments for the first 3-5 years and worrying about of RH, which is why i tend to buy stuff that's been around awhile.

i wonder if torrification is helpful, even if built in a 40% environment.

VA seems to be a pretty good place for wood. If'n i was having the issues to the degree some folks do, i would bag the mandolin and switch to a plywood upright bass or a squeeze box like Flaco plays.

[Cochiti Don]

There seem to be far fewer complaints of overhumidification than the effects of dehydration, but maybe fewer instruments are built in the dry conditions i prefer. It could be that folks aren't on their game of keeping the wood adequately hydrated, but there sure are lots of unhappy newly cracked instrument owners out there. i don't like the hassle of babying new instruments for the first 3-5 years and worrying about of RH, which is why i tend to buy stuff that's been around awhile.

i wonder if torrification is helpful, even if built in a 40% environment.

Ha! Thanks. I had to look that up. I now have torrefication in my vocabulary. I just read where Taylor guitars are heavily into that process. I’m in communication with couple of local luthiers now thanks to you kind folks. Hoping something will soon work out.

[Cochiti Don]

Have you considered a larger case?

Have not considered a larger case just yet. I’m going to see how the combo of Oasis tube and Dampit works.