Curious - has anyone played this mandolin?
Impressions?
Anyone played others?
Kirk
Curious - has anyone played this mandolin?
Impressions?
Anyone played others?
Kirk
I played it! It has a HUGE neck, which I kind of like. I can't say the tone jumped out at me as spectacular, but it was in the ballpark with many of the Gibsons and Collings (for a good deal less). It just wasn't for me- but it was certainly a quality instrument that someone would think sounded great.
I had that mandolin back in November on three day approval. It was the source for a lot of discussion here on the Cafe (about Stan Jay's hyperbolic descriptions of instruments and whether this one was actually built by Nugget). I did post several pics and we had quite a discussion including Kemnitzer giving his 2cents.
It does have a huge neck. Sounds good. But it really is not a $3700 mandolin. The only reason for that price is Jay's stretching at making the Kemnitzer connection. The description he has now (due to all the info I provided him) is different from the original back in Nov. 2004 when he tried to say Kemnitzer built it.
Any event, still sore memories from this little affair. Read about here at this old thread:
Ome A5
Jim (now the contented owner of a Kimble) Richter
Interesting read... to paraphrase an old Wakefield show piece "When you go to Staten Island / Keep your money in your pants / those Mandolin Brothers / don't give a man a chance..." (this would be the Deep MAS Blues)
Well, I was raked over the coals awhile back regarding the Ome, but due to this thread I decided to check out the Mando. Bros. website to see the price on it. #The price has now: #. WAS $3609 and NOW ON SALE for $3087 or, at our cash discount price, $2995. dropped by around $600. #I'll be impressed if it sells at that price--I'm more inclined that it will fall in the mid 2K and compete with the Collings and A5L's out there.
Sound and craftsmanship speak volumes, but name recognition/legend/mojo speak much louder. #
Jim
Jim,
I really have to differ with your last comment. For the collector or dealer, it may be true. For the player, isn't it all about sound and craftsmanship? After all, the reason a Strad is a Strad is the incomprable level of craftsmanship that lead to a certain sound that was almost impossible for the competition (or later builders) to duplicate. Yes, this then gets inflated by name recognition and rarity. But at a certain point this gets way out of line with its player's value.
The only "mojo" I can understand, rationally, is an instrument owned and played by a legend. There is only one Stratocaster that Jimi Hendrix played at Woodstock (where is that, anyway?) -- that's a piece of history so of course is unique and would be priced accordingly.
I understand your point, and from a the viewpoint of a fellow player, I agree. #However, I doubt there is one person in the Cafe who isn't influenced by the name on their instrument. #And in the end, regardless if you're a player or collector, the name of the instrument determines its price and sells that instrument. #The name walks hand in hand with craftsmanship and tone and most of the time is the bigger influence in price. #
My argument is that Stan Jay tried to push this mando as a Nugget or a Nugget once removed. #However, he very clearly told me that the mandolin was priced as it should be purely for craftsmanship and tone, not for the connection to Nugget. #
My contention was that the only used A's selling in the $3K range or higher, were those with a name attached to it: #Wood, Aptitus, Kimble, etc. # These sell more mainly due to the name attached to it.
Whether player or collector, we are all caught up with the names on our instruments. #We have seen here on the Cafe how if a certain push or buzz is given to one maker's mandolin, all of a sudden, that maker is the golden boy w/ the magic touch resulting in the price of his/her mando going up. #Or, if another maker is snubbed, it then becomes harder to sell an instrument at a fair value. #These aren't collectors instruments--these are high quality instruments for the player seeking a great value in workmanship and tone, and hoping that the value of their instrument will increase, ala Gilcrhist, Nugget, Pagonini, or Dude. #Get a great value and secretly (and sometimes, not so secretly) hope that this is the next collectable mando. #
We players are really the one's who drive the interest in a particular mando, sparking the interest of collectors/high end mando purchasers.
Faulty logic throughout, I admit. #A bit jaded, true. #But I don't think we players can really claim to only concern ourselves with craftsmanship and tone. #The only guys I think can really claim that is the general listening public, who doesn't know a Gilchrist from a Morgan Monroe. #To the uninitiated, it is all about tone.
In regards to Mojo, I'm thinking more of something like a Loar, which, I believe, has "Mojo" in its own right, or the fact that it was associated with Lloyd Loar.
Jim
Wow.
I had no idea.
I didn't mean to dredge up a lot of bad stuff.
I remember reading your first post or 2 many months ago and then didn't follow the thread thru to the end.
I wasn't even sure it was the same mando.
Hmmmm.
Kirk
Jim,
Well, I guess I'm different in how I approach MAS. I go to festivals and trade shows and just listen / play / look. That's how I got hooked on my Lebedas. I just fell in love with the sound and was blown away by the gorgeous craftsmanship. And of course it's nice to meet the maker in person (and make a deal with him... that sure helps!).
Would I like to have Ronnie McCoury's Gilchrist? You bet!! Because it's a Gilchrist? No!! Because it has an out-of-this-world sound.
Now, I agree with you when it comes to re-sale: if the market has a fair number of sheep (follow the leader) or ignorant people (I use this term in its technical sense -- they "do not know" about other builders) then a recognized name will have a higher value. In particular "The Gibson". This is in some sense fair because the reputation is built up over the years.
In your specific case, I think it's a question of mis-representation. Whatever is being sold should be accurately described. Then the buyer decides what to factor in for their decision. I have never bought from Elderly but I like their catalog: to the point, all the facts, no hype. Even the $130k Les Paul (!!?? how can it be worth that much??) on the cover of a recent catalog isn't hyped, it's just stated what it is. If the price seems steep, walk on by!
A final note: remember that Staten Island was going to be part of New Jersey until New York won a boat race around it -- or so goes the legend.
I think it's a fairly amazing fact that, despite the 'net and the amount of info floating around out there just about everything, that we still don't really know--despite a lot of effort by many to find out--who actually built the Ome mandolins that are floating around out there...
Heres a shot of one that I still have around here somewhere....
Orcas Island Tonewoods
Free downloads of my mandolin CDs:
"Mandolin Graffiti"
"Mangler Of Bluegrass"
"Overhead At Darrington"
"Electric Mandolin Graffiti"
Bruce... nice mando, but I really like the siding on the wall behind it! I guess I truly am a wood geek!
I agree that it's strange that a specific builder can't be associated with an instrument in this day of "real time" information exchange. I've never had the opportunity to play an OME, but I think I've read that there can be quite a difference between instruments depending on when a particular one was built.
Paul
"... beauty is not found in the excessive but what is lean and spare and subtle" - Terry Tempest Williams
Talking about a name. At Grey Fox, there was a mando workshop with Sam Bush, Mike Marshall and Danny Roberts. When Danny had to leave to play on stage, Sam saw Dawg and called him up to the stage. Dawg did not have his mando so Sam gave him his NEW Bush mando. Grisman, in a low key, pretended to cover "The Gibson" with his shirt.
OME and ODE mandolins were built by either Givens, Kemnitzer or Mark Taylor, depending on when it was built and who you are talking to. I've had one that looked exactly like a Givens A5 and the previous owner indicated that he bought it from Bob when he worked at OME. That could be faulty memory on his part there, I suppose. The only real constant seems to be the later ones were built by Mark Taylor. Many of these are marked "Tennessean". I actually have an oval hole in stock like this.
On a side note, the Hendrix Strat was bought by an Italian collector about 10 years ago. Even further afield, the Strat Jimi used to record "Hey Joe" and "Foxy Lady" was on display at the Philly Guitar show. Yours for $800,000 with full documentation. It was very cool to hold a piece of rock history.
Charles Johnson
I'd like to repeat what I know about this since I was there in Boulder in '75 and bought Ome #2 and this has been verified by Mike K. I never heard of the Givens connection before.
Nugget built the first 2 Ome mandolins, but also made some components such as the flower inlays that were used on mandolins built by others. I think he did some custom work for them after setting up his own shop. I remember seeing one of their carved resonators in his shop.
Boulder in the '70's was a haven for cheap hippie labor. a desirable place to live, but with limited job opportunities, especially if you had long hair. I worked in a mobile home manufacturing plant for $2.50/hr. And there were a lot of sweat shops making camping gear before everything moved oversea's. If you had a special skill like luthiery, then you still got minimum wage.
I'd like to know where Ome #1 is. It was an all black F and the only F with the Ome name on it. Add to that the fact that Nugget made it and you have a very rare bird.
Take a look at ad #14748 in the classifieds
Shaun Garrity
http://www.youtube.com/user/spgokc78
..now this is getting eerie...
Yeah, there she is. Last time I saw it, it still smelled of fresh lacquer. And I know Bill,too.
Now if I could locate #2.
Within two hours of wondering where #1 is it shows up for sale? Jim, you're not only a genius, but a wizard to boot! I'd bet ten bucks #2 shows up on your doorstep by tomorrow afternoon.
Interesting threads on Ome. Thanks folks.
Less talk, more pick.
"OME and ODE mandolins were built by either Givens, Kemnitzer or Mark Taylor, depending on when it was built and who you are talking to."
The 2 I've had were run past Mike and Mark, plus a couple other luthiers who were supposedly associated with the OME name, and no-one knew who built either one...
It is a bit Givens-esque, but I've been told that's not the case as well...
Would love to know more, 'cause it's a great little box...
Orcas Island Tonewoods
Free downloads of my mandolin CDs:
"Mandolin Graffiti"
"Mangler Of Bluegrass"
"Overhead At Darrington"
"Electric Mandolin Graffiti"
I think I remember what happened, but I have a friend that can fill me in even more.
But I think Ode was started in Boulder in the early '60's at the time when folkie music was big. At some point they sold to Baldwin and had an agreement not to build banjo's for some # of years.
After that they started up again as Ome. I'm not sure what happened with the Ode name, but I'm pretty sure Tut Taylor became involved with them and that's when Bob Givens probably made some Ode's, but not any Ome's.
Does anyone have pics of the OME F5 in the classifieds?
Love to see them posted here if "yes"...
Orcas Island Tonewoods
Free downloads of my mandolin CDs:
"Mandolin Graffiti"
"Mangler Of Bluegrass"
"Overhead At Darrington"
"Electric Mandolin Graffiti"
Re: OME mandolin
Originally Posted by Brad Weiss
Noticed you picture of your collection...is that one on the right A Gretsch Artist?
Re: OME mandolin
I was under the impression that Givens only supplied plans and supervised in Tut Taylors shop during the building of the first few Odes...They were built from plans that he designed which were said to be exactly like the one and only Loar A-5....I owned one Ode and it wasn`t a bad mandolin after I took off about four layers of lacquer from the top...I put it up for sale and a lady came all the way from Texas to Maryland to buy it so maybe there was/is something about them I did`t know and she did....
Willie
Re: OME mandolin
Since this thread re-surfaced I'll mention that I met the guy who bought Ome #1 at Carp Camp last year (whose name I have around here somewhere) and got to check out the mandolin which I had seen and played when it was brand new over 35 years ago.
Re: OME mandolin
I think it was Mike.
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