The Loar losing tune quickly

[Folkmusician.com]

Just a quick note:

If you are tuning correctly (always tuning up to pitch), a string sticking in the nut will sharpen the pitch.

You tune up, string sticks in nut, The tension between the tuning post and nut is now higher than the tension between the nut and the bridge, string finally slips and tension balances, increasing the tension between the nut and bridge and raising the pitch.

Tuning down is also the source of the vast majority of tuning issues with the tuners themselves.

Two things to keep in mind here:
All tuners have some degree of backlash.
Unless there is something actually broken, stripped, etc.. a worm gear setup such as a tuner cannot turn backward from string tension.

This means, even cheap, sloppy tuners cannot spin backward on their own.


If the mandolin is going flat and you tuned "up" to pitch, it can only be a few things:

Strings slipping at the post (strings wound/attached incorrectly)
Strings stretching... Extremely low quality strings, or strings are new and need to stretch out. Normally the later.
Neck bowing
Top Sinking
Mandolin drying out (shrinking).
Some major issues such as tailpiece tearing off the back, neck joint giving way, etc..

While I have occasionally seen major issues causing this, it is rare. It is almost always, the mandolin settling into a new climate, strings wound poorly, or Number one reason: wiggling the tuners around to get the mandolin in tune vs. tuning up to pitch.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Thanks Robert - I think that you've explained all this before on here. I had a problem with the lower "A" string on my Weber going 'sharp',something that i couldn't understand until you explained it. 5 minutes work with a piece of coarse brown paper made into a nut slot polisher,solved it !!. We all know that strings go flat when they loose tension,but going 'sharp' ??,
Ivan

[Eric Platt]

One other thing I'd suggest checking - how the strings are attached at the tailpiece. Take the cover off and see when you tune up if any of the strings are moving down there. Could be the hooks are bending or the strings are settling around the hooks (if it was strung up the old fashioned way).

Lastly, and let's hope not - but sometimes the loops on the bottom of strings do come apart. Had it happen once this past year. The first indication I had was the string repeatedly going flat overnight.

[dhergert]

Just a quick note:
...
If the mandolin is going flat and you tuned "up" to pitch, it can only be a few things:

Strings slipping at the post (strings wound/attached incorrectly)
...

Or, if strings are slipping at the tailipiece, ie: coming unwound there... (I've seen this quite often).

Mandolins, with their typical 8 high tension strings, are very holistic. As one or two strings loosen, the mandolin top (and possibly other parts) and the rest of the strings compensate, causing the other strings to go sharp.

For me, this holistic relationship on a mandolin almost always means critical tuning is a 2-pass process; the first pass gets the strings nearly up to pitch and the top to optimum tension, and usually the second pass nails it, or at least gets it very close.

Of course, if a string or two are binding at the nut, or if the wood or strings are expanding or contracting due to humidity or temperature changes, that can throw everything off.

Being primarily a banjo player, I've often been amused by the jokes about tuning a banjo. But tuning a mandolin is at least a magnitude more difficult.

[Folkmusician.com]

Yeah, those pesky tailpieces can be an issue as well. I haven't had much trouble with hooks bending and the strings going flat. The hooks do snap off though, resulting in an extremely flat string!

The MK Tailpiece is the single worst offender I have ever seen as far as string loops unwinding. It actually prompted some changes in the way strings were wound (MK was possibly the best selling brand at the time). I suppose you can thank MK for improved string loop winding techniques.

It does occasionally happen with standard Gibson style tailpieces as well.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Robert - My very first mandolin was a Michael Kelly 'Legacy' & the tailpiece was almost lethal. It had been put on twisted to one side & the cover must have been hammered on. I had to pry it off very carefully with a screwdriver. I replaced it within 2 weeks with an Allen cast t/piece.

Don - As a banjo player,you'll know the problems that we have with the neck joint flexing as we loosen /tighten the strings. It's terrific that we have the means to raise & lower the action as we do,but oh boy !,if you use Scruggs tuners,tune one down & the neck relaxes backwards,the rest take up the tension & go higher. At least with a mandolin we have a bit more stability i think. With a banjo,tuning seems very much a compromise,especially if you use Scruggs tuners - nevertheless,we manage,
Ivan

[allenhopkins]

Not clear from the OP's question whether all strings were consistently going flat over a period of time, or whether it was a subset. Makes a difference in the diagnosis. Would surprise me if all tailpiece hooks were bending, though the entire tailpiece could be deforming or coming loose.

Also, a full half-step flattening, on a recurrent basis, of all eight strings, would be to me an indication of either new strings stretching out, or a major change in the mandolin's geometry. Most of the tight nut slots, defective tuner, bending tailpiece hook problems are limited to certain strings, not the whole set.

[RustyMadd]

My first question is: 'Is the neck bowing?'.

First inspect everything including the truss rod adjustment and make sure there is some tension on the truss rod. If the truss rod came from the factory loose, then the neck could be bowing forward a bit.
Blessings

[Br1ck]

When I first started, this tuning thing drove me nuts, especially the thing going sharp. I've adjusted to it. Go fron a dry day to wet and no other instrument changes as much.

[JPS]

First inspect everything including the truss rod adjustment and make sure there is some tension on the truss rod. If the truss rod came from the factory loose, then the neck could be bowing forward a bit.
Blessings

Wouldn't that send him flat across the board?

[Jim]

Here in CO, my mandolin go flat as humidity goes down and sharp as humidity goes up. New strings are a must, then if it continues to go flat, something is coming apart. Either top sink neck set , loose trus rod or bad tail piece. Good luck and I hope it's something easy