What's a Jazz mandolin?

[mandroid]

Yea there is the Look... my David Hodson D'jangolin, Definitely does not have a Bluegrass look..

[Ted Eschliman]

I am of the same frame of mind that most any mandolin can be a jazz mandolin in the hands of the right player. It's not the instrument as much as the appropriate sound it creates for the context of the music, and this brings up a little music theory.

In folk/bluegrass, you have the purity of simple triadic harmonies. 3rds, 5ths, occasional 7ths, but rarely anything extended beyond that harmonically. You lean toward bright, piercing qualities for melodic brilliance and "chop" for percussiveness.

In jazz, you have #11, b13, m7b5 and a whole mess more of complex overtones in the harmony itself, so my aural goal in an instrument is to project the lower fundamentals of the string, warmth, so as not to add to or distract the inherent complexity in that "extended" harmonic vocabulary. This could be accomplished in a number of different ways, flatwound strings, round beveled picks, and above all, an instrument that yields less in presence or harsh harmonics. Because there are so many ways to accomplish this, I have a hard time pigeon-holing an instrument dedicated to this result. Even the way players fingers squeeze with their left or angle the pick with the right can achieve this.

Gypsy Jazzers have argued with me about this. They are in highly dynamic acoustic ensembles (like bluegrass), so they often power through with more piercing instruments than my ear likes. To each his own.

[DavidKOS]

.. This could be accomplished in a number of different ways, flatwound strings, round beveled picks, and above all, an instrument that yields less in presence or harsh harmonics. Because there are so many ways to accomplish this, I have a hard time pigeon-holing an instrument dedicated to this result........

Gypsy Jazzers have argued with me about this. They are in highly dynamic acoustic ensembles (like bluegrass), so they often power through with more piercing instruments than my ear likes. To each his own.

I seem to be on the other side, along with the Gypsy jazzers (which I play on guitar more than mandolin) - I prefer a colorful, bright, ringing mandolin tone in every musical style I play. But I like players to have unique personal tone colors so we don't all sound alike.

So for me, no flatwounds, rounded picks, etc. - each player can have their own tone, from smooth fat and warm to rich and bright, and even use a variety of tones by playing closer to the bridge or the neck as needed.

I need to sit down and record more mandolin jazz. I gig on jazz guitar so often I forget to use the mandolin for jazz playing.

[DavidKOS]

Yea there is the Look... my David Hodson D'jangolin, Definitely does not have a Bluegrass look..

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...aped-mandolins

Like these mandolins?

I find this very amusing! The whole concept of the Maccaferri/Selmer guitars borrowed from Italian mandolin design, so to re-borrow from the Selmer guitar to make a "Django" mandolin cracks me up!

But they are nice instruments.

http://www.lutherie.net/discussion2.html

"PH: There was a bend in the Selmer tops, similar to the fold, or "crank," across the top and behind the bridge, in the style of Neapolitan mandolins. Plus the lateral arch from the braces. The engineering of Selmers was close to Neapolitan mandolins, "

http://www.guitaraficionado.com/bran...r-guitars.html

"The guitar used the steel strings of a mandolin, which were louder, brighter, and clearer sounding than gut strings. And like a mandolin, Maccaferri’s design featured a soundboard arched at the bridge and glued to the sides under pressure."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selmer_guitar

"The strings pass over a moveable bridge and are gathered at the tail, as on a mandolin. "

[Marty Jacobson]

[url]I find this very amusing! The whole concept of the Maccaferri/Selmer guitars borrowed from Italian mandolin design, so to re-borrow from the Selmer guitar to make a "Django" mandolin cracks me up!

This is pretty typical of how musical instruments are developed over time and across cultures.

[Timbofood]

I think it's really more "How you do it" as opposed as to what the instrument is then.
Which makes sense to me, face it, the F-5 was NOT designed for bluegrass music, it has simply become the benchmark.
Two Point models are a tip of the hat to Jethro Burns use of the cherry red example from Gibson.
I really like the look of the "Jazzbo Jones" in your ad Oliver, it's just flat COOL! It makes me want a silk suit, a pack of clove cigarettes and, a snifter of brandy!

[GuyIncognito]

If you record more mandolin jazz, I'll listen

[Martin Ohrt]

If you record more mandolin jazz, I'll listen

Me too!

[DataNick]

I just gotta say Mr. Oliver that this is one of the coolest mandolins I've ever seen; at least the way it's positioned in this ad.

Gotta give props also to Steve S. whose has built an Octave along these lines as I recall...

[Oliver A.]

Here's another version.

[DavidKOS]

This whole thread could be used as evidence for my hypothesis that the F Gibson (particularly the LL models) is a little archtop guitar with mandolin stringing.

[Verne Andru]

If you define the question from a historical point of view, Tiny Moore's Bigsby 5-string is probably one of the better known jazz mandolin sounds.

The now defunct Paris Swing had a series of acoustics modeled after the Selmer/Maccafari look:









The mando in my avatar is like the last one. I added the fingerrest and electronics so it works in most instances.

[Eric Foulke]

This whole thread could be used as evidence for my hypothesis that the F Gibson (particularly the LL models) is a little archtop guitar with mandolin stringing.

I think you might have that backwards, the original name of the company was the "Gibson Mandolin-Guitar Manufacturing Company"
The L-5 was a very large mandolin.

[Pete Martin]

There are so many "jazz" styles, that many mandolins would work. Use your ears and see if your sound compliments the ensemble. If it doesn't try a different mandolin.

[T.D.Nydn]

Weren't some of the Maccaferri guitars made out of plastic...

[DavidKOS]

Weren't some of the Maccaferri guitars made out of plastic...

Several models of Maccaferri guitars and ukuleles were made of plastic. They sound pretty good for plastic. I think the ukes were a much bigger seller than the guitars.

[Reid Morsi]

"Isaac Eicher is living proof that it's the player that makes a jazz mandolin. He makes his Ellis sweeter and jazzier than a jazzy thing."

Great video, I am not familiar with this guy but he can really play. Looks like he's picking a Heiden F-style to me. Which i'm sure is a great mandolin for any style/context of playing