What's up at Gibson?

[MikeEdgerton]

Fender thrives because it isn't anything at all like it was in the past and has changed with the market. Martin thrives because it has obsessed management that doesn't want to ruin a family business. Gibson has setbacks but they are still a premier brand and will continue to be one. We're talking about them aren't we? Gibson isn't going away. They just might not be building the things some of us want them to build.

[Alan Lackey]

I can tell you that the Gulch area is a booming and prime real estate area right now. Development of the area has been vooming for a few years now with condos and really nice retaurants, so this may simply be a way to capitalize on that and get prime dollars for the buildings.

[wsugai]

The Moody's downgrade of Gibson's securities to below investment grade is a very, very bad sign for the company's future. I'll buy their mandolins, but I sure won't buy their corporate paper.

im not so sure Gibson is doing all that poorly. They had a really bad year last year sure. But i think overall they will be fine.

Alot of people like to say that Henry is the source of their "problems". While i dont like him either, It should be remembered that Henry resurrected this company from the dust. Without Henry there might not even be a Gibson today

[Spruce]

The article stated "....could mean for example that any suppliers that Gibson may use for parts will need paying and Gibson may not have the cash flow to do so."

Sorry, but suppliers have always needed to beg for payment with this regime, famously so...
Always...
...and that was 25 years ago...

I can't even imagine sending them anything these days...

[David Lewis]

just watch. they are going to start a new push for mandolins, all with the dreaded robot tuners!

At the risk of being flamed: there are days when jethro's 'you spend half your time tuning it and half playing out of tune' couldn't be more true and you would beg for robot tuners!


Usually though they're a shocking idea.

[Steve VandeWater]

Most days, it seems my mandolin needs a robot PLAYER!

[Jess L.]

Most days, it seems my mandolin needs a robot PLAYER!

[Nashville]

Gibson was downgraded because of their debt load. They expanded too much during the years when they had money to burn, mainly from selling Les Paul models and a few other popular models, mainly electric instruments. They bought quite a lot of property in & around downtown Nashville. None of this property was in the flood zone. The property they just put up for sale is in the north Gulch area which may become hot soon due to growth in the Gulch and all over Nashville. It is growing incredibly fast here now. Gibson's sales declined recently due to making unpopular guitar models or there could be other economic factors as well, such as a bazillion guitars in the market with stagnant wages for many people.

No, they divested entirely in Kalamazoo and many of the luthiers stayed and started a guitar company called Heritage which makes sublimely excellent guitars akin to the original Gibson models, made in the same factory building using many of the same tools that Gibson abandoned when moving to Nashville. Heritage makes some of the finest guitars I've ever played.

Yes, Henry did save Gibson way back when, but then proceeded to be the biggest dick in the industry and most everyone hates working for him which is why there is a constant turnover in employees. Yes, the custom shop and mandolin shop still make quality instruments. But the electric line of guitars is very hit and miss dues to mass production techniques and guitars assembled by many non-craftsman/non-luthier type people (and it's an assembly line).

Gibson became know for acquiring many other popular brands and running them into the ground. Seems like Gibson had the opposite of the Midas touch when it came to other brands. Part of their expansion years. Now with their debt load and downgrading Gibson needs to shrink to get back to profitability. But Henry is still at the helm and he hasn't changed much if any. Most likely they will get their finances in order and continue on as now. I am sure they will be making mandolins for awhile longer.

[Jim Hilburn]

While I've had my differences with them mostly over their legal threats I'm glad they haven't packed the whole thing up and headed to China.

[Astro]

While I'd prefer a warm and fuzzy socially enlightened guru figurehead to run the company, usually its the jerks that please shareholders, and piss-off employees AND succeed. Some companies manage to please both shareholders and employees and continue to succeed, but it sure seems that is the exception. But in the end to have staying power you have to make a good product at a decent price or the company will fail. You can only ride name recognition for so long.

I have had the chance to play Gibson's custom shop acoustic guitars. A friend of mine collects them and buys them direct (he is also a dealer). He keeps them out on stands in his climate controlled home music room and its a delight to go play them. He has at least 20 custom shop acoustics from the last 5 years of various woods and models. We can all argue whats worth what as far as price. But I can tell you if you play any one of these guitars you will be impressed. Fit, finish, tone and playability are all top notch. They would rival any well known custom small builder. And we know the same from their mandolins.

Somewhere in that bureaucratic corporate mess, They are still making some great instruments.

[stevedenver]

As a Gibson guy, one does have to admit that many of their designs are......old.....(traditional if you prefer), compared to others, like fender. Often not the best ergonomically.

And gibsons with set necks, nitro, and hand scraped bindings are more labor intensive than many others.


Certainly a status brand, but.....times are changing and I see many new players seeking different guitars than those of earlier generations.

[Timbofood]

Mike, the Kalamazoo property is held by a real estate group with no connection to the company. The only connection is the name on the (to be restored) smokestack. As of this writing, no work has commenced on that.
It would be very interesting to see the mandolin production come back "home" but, that seems pretty unlikely. Stranger things have happened.

[barney 59]

Mike, the Kalamazoo property is held by a real estate group with no connection to the company. The only connection is the name on the (to be restored) smokestack. As of this writing, no work has commenced on that.
It would be very interesting to see the mandolin production come back "home" but, that seems pretty unlikely. Stranger things have happened.

Standard operating procedure---investors own a property that has heritage or landmark structures. the history buffs want the structure preserved but the owners don't see much economic gain for their investment by preserving the structure. If enough foot dragging and neglect takes place eventually the structure becomes a hazard. Studies are done and since the hazards are real and immanent and unless the structure was in fact designed by Thomas Jefferson ( even at that I know of one Jefferson designed building that is almost for sure going to fall to the wrecking ball) the costs are too high and the funds are not available.
With the availability of high quality mandolins that are available today like there maybe never was before maybe it's not necessary for Gibson manufactured mandolins to survive. I am somewhat surprised at how many newer Gibson mandolins are still being played by high profile players that could easily play any mandolin of their choosing. The possibility of Gibson going under or moving overseas is still a possibility. The one thing that Gibson does own that is of considerable value is their name if they really find themselves in hard times. A company like Eastman might like to own a name like that!

[MikeEdgerton]

If Eastman was 10 times the size they are they couldn't afford that brand name.

[Glassweb]

Dave Harvey should go work with the folks at Northfield... at least he'd have a supportive environment for his (our) true passion...

[Steevarino]

I don't always agree with HJ's decisions, but in this case, I think Gibson is making a wise move. Property in "The Gulch" is going for top dollar. I heard that the "crane" has been named Nashville's Official City Bird, as they are all over town, doing their part to build high-rises. I've never seen a town booming like Nashville is right now. I happen to know what was paid for the two buildings, as I was in the mix during that time. Suffice to say, if they do sell, they stand to make a tidy sum. It might be a step in the right direction toward improving their currently bruised credit rating.

AFAIK, Warranty Repair is the only thing going on at the 12th and Church location. They'll have to move that, but it would make sense to put it closer to the Electric Plant and the Custom Shop than it is now. Cheaper real estate over that way too, I would imagine.

[Timbofood]

Barney, there's a whole thread about the smokestack (somewhere) and how the holding company has recently decided that it is worth preserving but, as I say, it has not started yet. Apparently, the funds have been amassed and they are just trying to sort out the best way to get the projec started with the least amount of danger.

[jadonming145]

flood means that you think that always be under the warning of flood .Is it right ??

[journeybear]

There are actually at least three threads about the smokestack (just use "smokestack" in the search engine; you'll see), though the three I've posted in haven't seen any activity in a year. So this is the first new news I've seen in a while. Glad to learn it's still up.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Barney59 - ".....maybe it's not necessary for Gibson manufactured mandolins to survive.", Maybe they're thinking along those lines 'to an extent',but for me,that's almost like Rolls Royce & Ferrari quiting making cars because others make them !.
Let's face it,it was the Gibson brand mandolins & Banjos that made the ''original sound'' of Bluegrass years ago, & the tone of those instruments came to be the 'most desirable' tone for players. Surely,any right thinking company would wish to preserve their status as a producer of such instruments. However,it was maybe the production of so many lousy mandolins & banjos back in the late 1960's & 70's,that opened the door for other builders to produce better sounding instruments,& it's grown from there.
If the will was there to do it,Gibson could continue to produce top quality mandolins under the guidance of Dave Harvey & get back building top quality banjos as well - all that's required is the will to do it. Like mandolins,i'd bet a shed load of cash that all the banjo builders are still aiming for 'the Gibson tone' - all except Gibson of course = totally nuts to me,
Ivan

[travellerbytrade]

Apparently, the funds have been amassed and they are just trying to sort out the best way to get the projec started with the least amount of danger.

At the Fretboard Festival, Jeff Mitchell had the next vendor table up the isle from me. He told me that the problem lies in the red tape of clearing funds. The money has to go through a non-profit (neither the building owners, his music school, Heritage Guitar, nor any other occupant is a non-profit). He told me it is a step-by step process that will take time. But you're right, the building owners are on board and they plan to preserve the entire original building plus the area surrounding the stack. They have the restoration company at hand and they're all just waiting.

I told Jeff that if I had the funds, I would put an Orville H. Gibson museum in there. Not as the only entity, but in addition to the occupants that are already there.

[Ron McMillan]

I have the only Gibson I'm ever likely to own - a restored 1920 A2. The company's glory days are long gone, and with the abundance of quality competition from independent and small-shop luthiers, I doubt if their days of dominating the market will return.

Sure, some will continue to be drawn by the brand (and because the current mandolins are reportedly among the best they've built for decades), but they can't depend on the famous name forever. For example, look at the long list of top players opting to play Northfields. That's not because Northfield have a giant budget to support professionals, but because (1) their instruments can compete with the best, and (2) Northfield are apparently a pleasure to do business with, unlike Gibson, who seemingly are hamstrung by top management who have lost sight of the importance of the customer.

[Big Joe]

The facilities in question have been heavily under utilized for years. Selling them is a smart move by Gibson. Guitar production ended there about a decade ago
when Valley Arts production was removed from that building. For a short time after the Dobros were made there, but that was short lived. Artist relations was handles in the Church street location for a while but have been gone for awhile. The repair division has been there for a number of years, but utilize only a small fraction of the whole building. It makes good sense to unload those facilities now that the market is hot, this will not decrease any production of product but may provide funding to continue what they have. Some people love Henry, some despise him. None the less,he is a genius but like many, has his foibles. All part of having a privately held company. He gets to decide what and how he runs the thing.

[Relio]

I doubt they made much of a profit off of mandolins. It is guitars where they make their money.

I have never played a Gibson acoustic guitar that I liked, and I've played quite a few.

[Jeff Mando]

I have never played a Gibson acoustic guitar that I liked, and I've played quite a few.

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