Mandocello - options..?

[Eddie Sheehy]

Yes you can restring a cittern or Irish bouzouki to CGDA, you move the GDA strings over and get an appropriate low C. You may need to adjust the nut and bridge saddle slots.

CGDAE - liuto cantabile tuning.

The heavier gauge strings required to get the low C up to tension - and the other gauges using heavier gauges accordingly will greatly increase the pressure on the top. Using lighter strings to offset this moves you to a more guitar sound - e.g. the Eastman Mandocello... The results vary and can cause structural damage. Check with the manufacturer first.

[multidon]

The heavier gauge strings required to get the low C up to tension - and the other gauges using heavier gauges accordingly will greatly increase the pressure on the top. Using lighter strings to offset this moves you to a more guitar sound - e.g. the Eastman Mandocello... The results vary and can cause structural damage. Check with the manufacturer first.

If you know what the recommended string tensions are for your instrument, I think all you would have to do is use a string tension calculator to come up with appropriate gauges that give you identical or very close tensions and you would be fine. The only issue I can think of that might crop up is that the strings of the C course might be too close and rattle. You could always go with a single C in that case, or why not an octave course?

I have never done this but believe it would work. I think you would be voiding the warranty on a brand new high quality instrument, so it seems like a good project to try on something like a used Trinity College or similar.

[Groooooove]

just talked to Walt on the phone.

very much sounds like a competant luthier that can get me what i want for a price i can pull off without having to sell my 1880s german bass

the sound samples he proveded were very impressive. excited to hopefully commision an instrument soon.

thanks again guys,

TV

[DavidKOS]

The heavier gauge strings required to get the low C up to tension - and the other gauges using heavier gauges accordingly will greatly increase the pressure on the top. Using lighter strings to offset this moves you to a more guitar sound - e.g. the Eastman Mandocello... The results vary and can cause structural damage. Check with the manufacturer first.

I've done this many times without needing to consult the maker. However you do make a good point of taking the overall string tension into account, although here

http://daddario.com/DADProductDetail...f-0bc153bbe040

you can see that the low C is the lowest tension of the set, with only 27.810 lbs. of tension compared to 30.710 for the high A string.

thus it's usually less tension than you'd think and as such no problem.

If you try to keep the string tension the same you at a given scale length you need to increase mass, so the thicker strings will produce the pitch desired. So it's not always more tension for a low string, it is also more mass.

If you know what the recommended string tensions are for your instrument, I think all you would have to do is use a string tension calculator to come up with appropriate gauges that give you identical or very close tensions and you would be fine. The only issue I can think of that might crop up is that the strings of the C course might be too close and rattle. You could always go with a single C in that case, or why not an octave course?

The string tension calculator is useful here indeed.

I prefer a single low C, it prevents rattles and a lot of old-timers did this trick. It also lowers overall string tension.

[Bernie Daniel]

Well, I'd like to hear the Vega! Bernie has some videos of his cello playing but he's playing a Gibson archtop conversion (which he completed after doing the Vega).

Here is the Vega mandocello:

[mrmando]

Well, that's thousand-dollar tone right there. Actually, it's two-thousand-dollar tone at half price.

Seriously, it sounds nice!

[Bernie Daniel]

Well, that's thousand-dollar tone right there. Actually, it's two-thousand-dollar tone at half price.

Seriously, it sounds nice!

Thanks! It is a lovely old super jumbo box and has a Lifton case (the tag is missing) that came with it. The fret board & neck play the best of all my mandocellos - in fact for me it's perfect. That said it is a mandocello and it is still a beast to tame.

I hope some day it ends up in a orchestra...

[Sweetpea44]

Thanks some nice playing Bernie!

[Bernie Daniel]

Thanks some nice playing Bernie!

Thanks a million!

[Groooooove]

just sent Walt Kuhlman my down payment. i'm very confident he's gonna make me something i'll be really happy with.

the general idea for now is, spruce top, maple back and sides. lute-like body shape. 27" (if mandocello strings fit..) string length, just like a regular cello.

i love how confident he is when speaking about how volume and projection wont be an issue. can't wait to see the end result.

all this is comming in at less than a used eastman mandocello will ever cost- his base price is $1250. so the answer to this thread, what are your options when looking for a mandocello- pretty much your choices are the eastman, convert an archtop guitar, or contact walt at Gypsys music.

i think i made the right choice so far- time will tell.

thanks for the help everybody.

TV

[Rvl]

just sent Walt Kuhlman my down payment. i'm very confident he's gonna make me something i'll be really happy with.

the general idea for now is, spruce top, maple back and sides. lute-like body shape. 27" (if mandocello strings fit..) string length, just like a regular cello.

27 inch is a good choice
My Suzuki mandocello is 22 inch and C strings are around .090
My Hathway mandocello is 26 inch and has better tension but I have it strung up FCGD now

[Groooooove]

27 inch is a good choice
My Suzuki mandocello is 22 inch and C strings are around .090
My Hathway mandocello is 26 inch and has better tension but I have it strung up FCGD now

yeah, i was surprised to learn that mandocello string lengths are so short. i'm a competant cellist, and a full time double bass player, so i'm not afraid of a long string- i play on 42.5" for a living, haha.

when discussing string length with walt, he (accurately, i think) pointed out that mandocellos are generally built for mandolinists, who don't want a huge string length. either that or guitarists, so that would make the 24-25" thing make sence.

[Sweetpea44]

I don't have any of Walt's instruments, but from what I've read you made a good choice. Would love to see/hear future photos and sound samples once you have the instrument in hand.

[Groooooove]

i heard from walt yesterday. my Mando is "done," just in the finishing stages. should ship in a few days.

very excited to see and hear it. will post here when i get it.

[Martin Jonas]

so can anyone help me out here- how does one get their hands on a mandocello for less than $1000? should i just hold out for an eastman or well done guitar conversion?

Having Walt/Gypsy's make a custom instrument is of course the best option of them all -- congratulations and let us know how you like it!

Returning to the original question, at least in Europe there is now another affordable instrument: Thomann now list the Suzuki MC-836 mandocello as being available from stock for EUR 754 (it was listed as "not currently available" for a long time). I have the predecessor, a MC-815 from the (I think) 1970s or 80s, and it's a really nice instrument. Very short scale for a mandocello (22.5"), which is great for playability but involves some compromises in depth of tone on the bass.

Thomann also list two much cheaper own-brand mandocellos (standard and deluxe models), but I don't know if they're any good. Scale length is 610mm (24"), which is about normal, and they have large mandocello-type bodies and a solid top, but both are listed as "GDAE tuning".

Martin

[Groooooove]

[NotMelloCello]

^^^^ sweetness! ^^^^

[Groooooove]

should have that mandocello tomorrow. excited to hear it. 26" scale length, should make a lot of noise.

[violmando]

I know a solution to getting mandocellos to be more popular....turn more BOWED cello players onto them! Seriously!
Yes, I'm a double bassist/cellist who got TURNED ON to Mcello!

[Groooooove]

I know a solution to getting mandocellos to be more popular....turn more BOWED cello players onto them! Seriously!
Yes, I'm a double bassist/cellist who got TURNED ON to Mcello!

that's my situation as well. i'm a full time bassist, and do a fair amount of work (lots of teaching, though) as a cellist.

so here's a bit of a review of my new Gypsys mandocello.

it goes without saying, but the maple looks exquisite in person. it's not the most intence maple i've ever seen, but its quite nice. Walt offered me plain maple, lightly figured, and highly figured, all for different prices. i asked for the lightly figured, to spend a little bit on a nicer piece of wood but not break the bank. the above instrument looks more than lightly figured in person, so kudos to walt for that.

the instrument plays quite well out of the box. the bridge did move on me while tuning it up- 8 strings all at a pretty high tension is a lot for any bridge to handle. Walt strung it up with GHS phosphor bronze, .76-.18 gague strings. the top 3 strings are made for guitars, and the bottom are for acoustic bass guitars. as i said originally, the bridge took some work to get it back into place, since i wasn't careful when originally tuning up- and in my constant tweaking, i acidentally broke one of the .18 top strings. if this were a guitar with a broken string i'd drive a few miles in any direction and find a local shop, grab a d'addario string and be on my way- but part of the mandocello life is that strings are confusing world... where does one find a replacement .18 wound phosphor bronze string?

i was able to order them, so its no big deal.. but worth mentioning, that strings aren't readily available- the website i ordered the string from emailed me promply saying their .18 strings are out of stock but will arive in a week then be shipped to me right away. also since mine is a larger scale, 26", regular mandocello strings would likely be too heavy tuned to pitch- i'm already weary since i broke one of the .18 strings, perhaps something lighter would better suit my instrument.

so, on to the important stuff- how does she sound.

the top of this instrument appears to not be flat, but very lightly arched. i think that plays a huge part in the character of this instrument. it doesn't have that upfront midrange bite that one assosiates with an arched top, but also doesn't have the characteristically "open" sound of a flat top. its right in the middle. the sound is very warm, and really quite musical and impressive. the sound is full and resonant without that midrange honk one would get from an archtop guitar or something like that. as far as volume goes, it seems to fill the room with sound beautifully. the day i got the instrument my brother was over, and he's a professional full-time guitarist. we played a bit together, he was using my Loar 650 guitar- i was easily able to play nearly twice as loud as him, and that loar is by no measure a quiet guitar. the only "complaint," though its an unreasonable one, is that this instrument doesn't carry as much low end girth as i wish it could. i guess being used to the body size of a double bass, or at least a cello, i'm used to a fullness in the depth of the low end. i'm used to my bass rattling the entire stage. the gypsys mandocello doesn't have a small sound, and in terms of volume is quite large sounding, but the low end is not particularly deep and booming.

i'm waiting on a replacement string so i can't do too much playing unfourtunately until those arrive. but, i'm very happy with the repertoire i've been playing through so far. i don't own a zoom recorder anymore, but hopefully will again in the near future. i'd love to put up some somewhat-rough recordings of a few cello suite movements. the last 3 from suite 1 and perhaps the gigue from the 2nd. we'll see.

if anyone who's interested in Mcellos wants to see mine and you're in NY feel free to ask. it's an instrument i'm proud to show off.

[Eddie Sheehy]

I have 2 MC's, a Gibson K2 and a Regal. Both are about a 25" scale and I use standard MC strings.
I think that .018 is the lowest wound string I have seen - the core is about .008. Standard MC set has a .022 for the A course.
You could try a .017 plain steel, but the tone might not be great across the board...

[zoukboy]

D'Addario makes a .017 nickel wound string.

[Groooooove]

i considered using plain steel, i have several on hand.. would rather stick to wound to keep the sound the same across strings.

already ordered replacement .18s, so i'm not too worried.