When ordering a Custom...

[Tim Saxton]

Let's say I am in the market for custom small builder A mandolin. Maybe one from the likes of Newell, Old Wave, Rose etc. Take in to considreation that I don't have one of these mandolins near by to compare and play and so forth.

What if you order one and you get it and don't care for the color, shape of the neck, size of frets, or any other thing.

What is the TYPICAL protocall for getting these issues one may possibly have delt with?

I want to order one but have never done it and am a little gun shy. Any help and insight would be deeply appreciated.

Tim Saxton

[Ron C]

Tim, there is usually a 24-48 hour acceptance period with most small builders, I for one would refund any money sent for a custom mando built that did not meet the buyers approval

[jim simpson]

"What if you order one and you get it and don't care for the color, shape of the neck, size of frets, or any other thing.....What is the TYPICAL protocall for getting these issues one may possibly have delt with?"

Tim,
I have not ordered a custom mandolin to date either but I would be as clear as possible to the builder regarding any and all preferences. I think it would still take a while to settle in with your new instrument. I think that would be the case even if everything did meet your initial expectations. I think my experiences with non-custom ordered instruments has been a comfortable one in that I knew pretty much right away if I liked it or not. One of the latest mandos I purchased was custom ordered for the buyer and I happened to like the particular features specified.
Good luck in your journey!
Jim

[grandmainger]

Hi Tim,

I think most of the issues that trouble you are linked to perhaps you not knowing exactly what you want. For instance, if you have played a few mandos, you should have a good idea whether you like big frets or not, what shape of neck you like best, etc. Many builders have played a very large number of instruments and should be able to "replicate" a particular feature you'd like... For example, I played a couple of standard Weber Yellowstones, and I found that that neck shape fitted my hand perfectly. Since they are fairly common mando, I could ask a builder to design a similar nack for a custom order. This type of exercise should get you pretty much sorted with the actual build of the instrument.

Now, when it comes to colour, you will have to compromise, unless you're going for black. Again, most builders will get fairly close or very close to the colour you ask them to produce, but you're not in their head and they're not in yours, so you will have to settle for sending as many photos of the type of shade you want. This is very similar to mail/online order of clothes... Sometimes what you get is slightly different from the catalogue... Most of the time, it's close enough that you don't care...

Last but not least, the tone of the instrument you're getting is the most difficult bit to define... especially if you're after something a little unusual... You can perhaps send sound samples to the builder of the mando tunes where you particularly like the instrument's sound...

Overall, I think you have to be ready to get something which will be a little different from what you picture in your mind. However, if you chose your builder carefully, you should get something which will be different-better!

Good luck!

Germain

[John Rosett]

tim-
i see that you're in mt. vernon, wa. wintergrass is only a few weeks away, and i think that you would be able to play and hear alot of mandolins, and meet some luthiers also. find someone that's building mandolins with the sound you want.
good luck, john

[mandocrucian]

Are you really talking about a true custom made instrument? #Or are you talking about one the builder has currently in stock?

Big difference between the two!

A true custom-made instrument, to my way of thinking, is one that is built specifically to meet the specs and preferences of the customer who commisioned such an instrument. #If you really aren't sure of what you want - neck width & profile, fret size and fretboard style, type of tonal response/sound, stain color and finish, etc. #etc. - then you have no business ordering a custom-built instrument. If you thought you were going to love that <span style='color:blue'>purple</span> mandolin with the ultra narrow neck, and then decide, once you've tried it out, that purple ain't really your color, or that a wider neck is actually preferable, you ought to be stuck with your mistake. Or maybe you can negotiate a "kill fee" with the builder, so you're only out 20% of the cost, rather than having an expensive Purple People Eater stashed in your closet.

As far as "stock design" instruments (the style/specs the builder would usually build from his/her own luthiery preferences) go, you probably shouldn't be ordering one if you've never played on any of that builder's instruments before. If you haven't gone through the trouble to figure what you actually like, or want out of an instrument, then it's better for all concerned if you stick to shopping at music stores or bigger mail-order firms.

Niles H.

[Chris Baird]

Most builders send out their work on approval. If you don't like it most builders have a way of taking it back. My policy for returns is to refund all money except the deposit and then the deposit once the instrument has sold to someone else.

[Tim Saxton]

Are you really talking about a true custom made instrument? Or are you talking about one the builder has currently in stock?

Big difference between the two!

A true custom-made instrument, to my way of thinking, is one that is built specifically to meet the specs and preferences of the customer who commisioned such an instrument. If you really aren't sure of what you want - neck width & profile, fret size and fretboard style, type of tonal response/sound, stain color and finish, etc. etc. - then you have no business ordering a custom-built instrument. If you thought you were going to love that <span style='color:blue'>purple</span> mandolin with the ultra narrow neck, and then decide, once you've tried it out, that purple ain't really your color, or that a wider neck is actually preferable, you ought to be stuck with your mistake. Or maybe you can negotiate a "kill fee" with the builder, so you're only out 20% of the cost, rather than having an expensive Purple People Eater stashed in your closet.

As far as "stock design" instruments (the style/specs the builder would usually build from his/her own luthiery preferences) go, you probably shouldn't be ordering one if you've never played on any of that builder's instruments before. If you haven't gone through the trouble to figure what you actually like, or want out of an instrument, then it's better for all concerned if you stick to shopping at music stores or bigger mail-order firms.

Niles H.

Thanks for that Niles. As i stated, IF. A very large meaning for such a small word.

I prefer a larger fret with a moderate V neck. I want a Black top F hole with a Dark wine colored bursted back in flame quartersawn maple. All ebony fingerboard and bridge. Silver hardware. And fully bound in Tortise.

Tim

[atetone]

Yeah, this is a tough one. I have gone the custom order route and had lots of contact with the builder during the process and had a picture in my mind of exactly what was going to be in the box.
Well, guess what? it wasn't "exactly" what I had envisioned which threw me #off immediately. In fact after I had time to adjust it was really better than I had envisioned but there was that adjustment period during which I was confused and possibly dissappointed about the whole affair. It passed and now I am very happy with it.
You have to be ready for that!
It is virtually impossible for the finished product to be exactly what you conjured up in your head and tried to convey over the telephone. It is not 100% going to happen.
You pick your builder based on the information that you have and do the best you can to detail what you want and at some point you have to let the builder do his/her thing. You picked the builder based on confidence in their abilities, so let them do it.
As far as the 48 hr approval period goes,,, well, my opinion on that is that we are talking about major discrepancies and/or problems really. The fact that you are not happy that the color is a tad off what you envisioned is not grounds to call the whole deal off. Or that the neck shape you ordered is not immediately as comfortable as you wanted,, etc...
Now if you received it with the completely wrong neck or a horrible piece of wood in it then that's another story.
Buyers remorse over small things is not grounds to cancel the deal and start passing negative comments about the builder.
You have to be willing to adjust your mindset to some degree.
If you are not willing to take this chance then you should be buying a mandolin off the wall. You will be happier that way.

[ab4usa]

Tim,

As a lefty who faced your dilemma recently, I understand your angst. Oddly, I looked at two of the same builders you did. Frankly, your specifications are much more specific than mine were and I can tell you that my Old Wave exceeded my expectation. Even if Bill isn't going to Wintergrass, With over 350 mandolins made,I've got to believe he has a customer somewhere close to you. It might give you an opportunity to play one.

[Desert Rose]

As a custom builder with thirty years behind me I have to agree with two points.

Number one if you are taking it upon yourself to order an instrument built custom for you, its your responsibility to educate yourself to be able to communicate with the builder. Any problems Ive ever had in building custom instruments were with the customer not communicating his thoughts.And upon delivery is not the time to remember that there was something worth stopping the world over if its not just so

I actually like the picky cusatomers who have a narrow view of what they want, I can hit the target, if I know what the target is.

That being said as was mentioned if a customer is really not happy with an instrument I DONT want him to have it!

Id sooner eat the thing and find another customer for it than have someone not happy.

Needless to say before I take on a custom order there is a lot of communication

Scott

[Peakbagr]

If you're have a true custom mandolin built, why take a chance? Grab a cheap plane ticket and fly out and meet the builder. See and try his instruments, pick neck width and profile, fret size, and if you're lucky, the wood it will be built with.
The ticket is an inexpensive investment considering the cost of a custom mandolin.
Besides, its lot of fun.

[SternART]

Peakbagr........that is exactly what I'm doing soon, flying up to Boise then making my way up the mountain, to visit Lawrence Smart, in McCall, ID.
I'm commissioning a custom dola, after two great experiences on mandolins. I always go with ideas, but am open to hearing what Lawrence can add,
he is great at listening & trying to build what you ask for, especially in regards to tone. My trips to McCall have certainly helped me learn
about luthiery. Picking the exact boards is pretty much fun & with Lawrence's advice on the potential tonal qualities, you don't get much closer to the source than that. I always leave room for the luthier to make decisions in their area of expertise, some of these guys have worked for years honing in on their craft, have 100's of instruments built to base their decisions on, have continually tried to understand the mysteries of luthiery, tried to master carving, bracing etc. And strive to get better.

And Tim.....I see nothing in your list of specs that would be difficult for some of the fellas on your short list. I've seen photos on this site of Bussman matching the color of I believe it was a brand of burbon.
It takes experience to do that, pick someone & put your trust in them.

[BrazAd]

Tim,

I notice that Ron Cole was the first to answer your post, and he should definitely be on your list of luthiers to consider, as well. I ordered my first-ever mandolin from Ron last year, after much consideration. I had already had 2 custom guitars built, so I had experience with going custom (us lefties know all about it!), and was comfortable with the process.

I ordered my lefty A from Ron on June 18. It was in my living room on August 18!! It's both gorgeous (pics at: http://members.aol.com/mandonewbie), and it sounds awesome. I had several special touches that I asked for - 1-1/4" nut, burgundy 'burst finish, etc. - and Ron nailed every one of them. His price was fair, he was great to work with, and the final product is incredible.

Ron, you can mail my monthly kickback - err, referral check now!

Nahhhh, no kickbacks here, just an honest report. I hope your experience is as good as mine was - and still is, playing it every day!

Gary Collier
Atlanta

[Keith Newell]

Tim, custom ordered instruments are really not that big a deal as long as you and the builder click with what your terminology is and the builders understanding of that. Like tone, feel of neck, action, and what colors you want. I love it when a customer will link several pictures of a color of mando that I can look at and have an idea what they are looking for.
I will have a couple A styles with me at Wintergrass...no booth, all were taken
I know you by sight so will say hello if I see you.
If you are ordering a custom instrument you cant go wrong with so many builders at the cafe, I constantly learn something or am inspired by some of their latest creations. I hope you buy from a custom builder, not even me but at least one that make his life and living from creating what we all love.
Keith

[Ephraim]

I ordered from Keith Newell. It was a great experience -- the journey of working through all the details on the mandolin was what made it fun. And I learned a lot during the process. Keith is in Oregon, and I'm in California -- we sent a lot of email and pictures back and forth. My humble advice, for what it's worth, is really try hard to educate yourself and then work with a small luthier to build exactly what you want. And then remember that the luthier is an artist and there will always be elements of their personal expression in the instrument. These, I found, are an extra bonus. Would you rather buy a poster in the mall? Or find some interesting local artist and order a nice oil painting? Same thing with mandolins... The most expensive piece of art in our household is the mandolin Keith made for me. And I get to hold it and play it instead of look at it on the wall... Good luck. ;-)

[Tim Saxton]

Thanks for all of this great insight.

Tim