What Strings Are Best For Emandos?

[journeybear]

What I want to know is, should I be using mandolin strings or electric guitar strings on my MandoBird? And what gauges are best? I'll be playing rock, blues, and country on it, so I'm not really looking for a clean bluegrass sound.

I bought it used on ebay, and have no idea what's on there, nor a micrometer to measure. I do know that I am able to get a three fret bend on them, which is so cool, and I don't want to lose that by getting the wrong strings.

They sound fine, regardless of their age (unknown), and I don't feel a need to replace them, but I wonder if I wouldn't be getting an even better response from new strings (that is the conventional line of thinking on these things).

A secondary question concerns stringing a MandoBird for mandola tuning, as the neck length might be OK - string gauges, any modifications, etc.

Thanks!

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Check Martin Stillion's site for emando strings (that's where I get mine). Standard set 11-40.
Unless I miss my guess. the strings for electric guitar and emando are the same thing, so no worries there.

For the mando(la)bird I go 13, 16, 26, 49, I think. Those middle two numbers may be off a digit or two. Don't forget you'll need to intonate the 'bird for low C.

Daniel

[mrmando]

For three-fret bends, I'd probably try to convince you to buy my light set rather than the normal set.

If you can live without playing the instrument for a few days, you could always cut the old strings off and send them to me when it's time to change. I'll measure and send you a set to match.

Or, loosen the strings and take the instrument to any guitar shop that does repairs ... the repair tech should have a set of calipers. Very useful tool, I've discovered.

[journeybear]

Great advice! Martin, I will very likely take you up on that offer. We had one (1) instrument repair shop in town, and the guy just gave up the end of last month, rent rising faster than income. That old story.

Neither of you came right out and said so, but I assume there's a difference between acoustic and electric strings. My old approach was, when I put new strings on my F-12, I'd put the old strins on my EM-150, as new strings on that were just too bold. I got to thinking about that because it's time to put new strings on my mandola - I've got J77s on there now but picked up some J72s last time I bought strings - and I was going to try them on a MandoBird (I've got two), but then I realized they've got loop ends!

Anyway, I never could bend on that like I can on the MandoBird, and while a three note bend isn't absolutely necessary, knowing that I can is going to be hard to forget!

J77s are 16 - 25 - 36 - 56; J72s are 14 - 23 - 34 - 49, which are closer to what has been suggested, especially for the C. I saw another thread in which someone posted about putting a little extension on the C string ... must find that one again ...

[mandroid]

The extension that comes to mind , I recall seeing on a bass Viol, in a classical concert, essentially the lowest string , an E
was further extended out on the peg head , a capo at the nut where the other strings are ,and an extra length of fingerboard , I suppose that would be a 'Maine',
that when the capo is off [it was a pivoting lever ]
the whole string vibrates to a rather low C.

So if that were to be adapted as an idea, for an E-'dola, if the whole string would be an A,
the 'Maine' would be another 3 frets, or 2 for a Bb.

[CLeRIK]

The extension that comes to mind , I recall seeing on a bass Viol, in a classical concert, essentially the lowest string , an E
was further extended out on the peg head , a capo at the nut where the other strings are ,and an extra length of fingerboard , I suppose that would be a 'Maine',
that when the capo is off [it was a pivoting lever ]
the whole string vibrates to a rather low C.

So if that were to be adapted as an idea, for an E-'dola, if the whole string would be an A,
the 'Maine' would be another 3 frets, or 2 for a Bb.

There are two luthiers in Sweden (Ådin & Ekvall) who builds mandolin-instruments like that (not emandos though). Here's a picture of Ale Möller playing one of those instruments: http://www.umeafolkmusik.se/umefolk0..._9758web_1.jpg

[journeybear]

No, the extension I saw here was on the bridge, a spacer added behind the bridge, to accommodate a longer string length that way. That is, with the C string's mini-bridge all the way back and then something like a nut added between it and the ball end. I'll have to keep looking to find it, but it seemed like a pretty nice, neat, simple and straghtforward solution. Might need a slight bit of machining, though ...

[thistle3585]

Putting a lighter gauge string on an instrument will increase the distance between nut and saddle for proper intonation. When I first went to .038 for the G string I found that I didn't mount the bridge far enough back to account for the needed travel length for the intonation. I actually brought this topic up, and it was thoroughly discussed HERE, on the cafe some time ago. Anyhow, I recently received an instrument back from a customer and was asked to remount the bridge because it didn't have enough travel in the saddles. Interestingly, I put a set of calipers on the G string and found that it was .036. The same one I had problems with in 2007. I believe it originally sported a .040 or .042 when it went out the door.

My point in all that? Well, the idea of an extension is very real if you mix light wound strings with unwound strings. To me, for electrics, light strings are .038, .026, .015, .010 mediums would be .020 larger and heavies another .020. I've often wondered if one way around that problem is adjusting intonation at the nut along with the bridge.

The spacer you are talking about is where someone simply put some sort of spacer between the screw head and the back of the bridge so that it would allow for additional travel because the screw was making contact with the saddle as you draw the saddle back. The other solution is to simply cut the screw shorter. Regardless, you have to cut the spring shorter to allow for additional travel.

[Hubert Angaiak]

The 4 string Mandocaster I got has steel fiddle strings on it. I got this from Jeff at Mando and More. They are not as bright as the the guitar or mando strings.

[mrmando]

Interesting. I wouldn't think that the winding on fiddle strings would stand up very long to being hit with a plectrum.

[Hubert Angaiak]

I'm using a thin pick so yeah, will see how long they last. Will keep and eye on the D and G strings if the winding gets loose. The steel may be more durable than the perlon fiddle strings.

[allezlesbleus]

The 4 string Mandocaster I got has steel fiddle strings on it.

What brand and what gauge?

ALB

[mandroid]

the contact point over the frets is something strings for violins don't see, too.

TI , their mandolin strings, I read on these pages, are steel violin strings,
packaged sold and used on mandolins by many.

sets in 3 different gages..

[Ben Milne]

I've often wondered if one way around that problem is adjusting intonation at the nut along with the bridge.

something like these Earvana nuts (but for mando) andrew?




for what its worth i just restrung my 8 string electric with d'addario EJ70: (ball end 11 15 24 38.) I'd be interested in hearing what heavier gauge strings do for people here...

[meow-n-dolin]

No, the extension I saw here was on the bridge, a spacer added behind the bridge, to accommodate a longer string length that way. That is, with the C string's mini-bridge all the way back and then something like a nut added between it and the ball end. I'll have to keep looking to find it, but it seemed like a pretty nice, neat, simple and straghtforward solution. Might need a slight bit of machining, though ...

What I did, (and I am sure someone else has too) which is simpler but not nearly as slick, and seems to give the desired results (a longer string under tension), is to simply, instead of anchoring the ball-end of the string on the through-body tailpiece, run the string through the body as normal, but then run it a few inches (5 inches or so) towards the end of the body, and anchor it there. I actually drill a hole just above the endpin and put a string furrel in the end of the body (I route out a channel for the string to lie in). I use flatwound strings (a 48 on the low C, but I have used lighter), and intonation is not a problem. The only problem is when installing a new string, it takes a few minutes for the tension to equalize between the, essentially, two "halves" of the string under tension. I am going to install a carbon-fiber guide under the bridge and see if that helps. The adavantage is that there is no need to change the headstock or the bridge, and it doesn't destroy the looks of the mando (at least not the front of it

Thanks

Al

[thistle3585]

something like these Earvana nuts (but for mando) andrew?

Yes. I compensated the nut on my first ukulele because I didn't get the bridge placement right. It works great.



for what its worth i just restrung my 8 string electric with d'addario EJ70: (ball end 11 15 24 38.) I'd be interested in hearing what heavier gauge strings do for people here...

I consider that string set to be mediums.

[Ben Milne]

Martin... (you seem to be the man in the know) or anyone else

Can you please explain the difference between bronze and nickle strings... on your site i see you recommend nickel for magnetic and bronze for piezo.

The EJ70 I installed are phosphor bronze and from first impressions are acceptable on electric (maybe they aren't... I had put the strong A string down to the stock pickup) would having nickel G and D strings improve the low end response? is the gauge difference just a feel preference or would it make a difference to tone? I was ready to put an order in, though now want a little more information on the differences in these regards.

If it is as down the line as nickel for electric and bronze for piezo why would D'Addario do ballend strings with bronze but not nickel? surely most mandos requiring Ball end would be magnetic pickups?

thanks

[mrmando]

The EJ70s are, apparently, intended for Ovation mandolins. That's the only production-model mando I can think of that has a piezo and takes ball-end strings.

As to why D'Addario doesn't offer a nickel ball-end set, I can only speculate. It's worked out pretty well for me, but I am a cottage industry. Maybe it doesn't scale up to the point where D'Addario would be interested. Most mass-produced electrics with magnetic pickups (the Fender FM-52E, for example) take loop-end strings, and D'Addario does sell those. (I figure the reason I don't sell as many loop-ends as ball-ends is that people buy the D'Addarios or the Fenders.)

Anyway, yes, if you put a set of EJ70s on a mando with a magnetic pickup, the A strings will be louder than the other strings. Your G and D strings have steel (ferrous) cores, which will generate a signal with the pickup. The bronze (nonferrous) winding, however, does not add to the signal, and may even weaken it somewhat. The A string is unwound and therefore there's nothing to interfere with its signal. The E string has less mass than the A and generates a weaker signal (which is why a smart builder will often angle the pickup slightly so it's closer to the E string.

On electric strings, the winding is usually not pure nickel but a nickel/steel alloy (ferrous), so the winding contributes to the signal instead of potentially interfering with it. Hope I've got that right. Anyway, that's why I recommend the nickel/steels for a magnetic pickup. (With a piezo, the winding material actually doesn't matter that much ... a piezo senses vibrations, not the kind of metal that makes them. Nickel and bronze strings should be pretty much equal in terms of the strength of signal they deliver to a piezo.)

[Ben Milne]

Thanks! i had started to figure that the core material was what would be confusing me... (the reason why it still registers with the pickup). The confirmation is much appreciated.

[meow-n-dolin]

"On electric strings, the winding is usually not pure nickel but a nickel/steel alloy (ferrous), so the winding contributes to the signal instead of potentially interfering with it. Hope I've got that right."


I do believe that is precisely correct!

[Cliff D]

Was someone looking for this again? (spacer improvised from a defunct 9 volt battery + terminal!). Martin, forgive me, but I am able to resist everything except temptation (well, add a spot of plagiarism!). Other electro acoustic mando's that take ball ends, hmmmm. Does the name "Rafter" maybe, or possibly "Crafter" ring any marimba bars?

[saint.faustus]

I just got a set of "Ernie Ball 2221 Regular Slinky Electric Guitar Strings" for my 4 string mandobird. I was thinkin of putting the 4 low note strings on the emando to get some lower notes out of it. just as a question do yall think the tension would be too high for the bridge. from my calc's it looks like a lower tension than stock, but im a newb at string tensions.

heres the gauges: .046, .036, .026, .017, .013, .010.

thanks for any help, and sorry if i threadjacked.

--Bo

[mrmando]

Leave out the .017 and the .010, and you've got a decent mandola set, although your D may be a bit tight.

[mrmando]

Does the name "Rafter" maybe, or possibly "Crafter" ring any marimba bars?

I try to think about those as little as possible...

[Cliff D]

Awww, the little Crafter I have maybe a bit of a horse to play, but I like the tone & it got me started on the mando game, back in the dark, dark days before I had heard of the cafe - that may not count in its favour! May I point out at that back then I think I tried some Stags & other bargain basement offerings & independently concluded they were not worth purchasing: way before the spot light of the cafe illuminati was turned on my third (or possibly fourth?) world comprehension on matters mandolinic!