Looking for luthier recommendations in NC (sorry, NMC)

[TC-in-NC]

Hi y'all!

I've recently been gifted with my Great Grandfather's guitar.

This poor critter has lead a rough life over the last 110 +/- years, and is in need of repair.

Everyone here at the Café has been great with helping me with questions about my mandolin, so I was hoping someone could steer me in the direction of a luthier in / near NC that could work with a guitar of this vintage.

I'm not sure of the maker exactly...have looked and looked and looked and have not been able to find a maker's mark or stamp or label or anything. It has many of the features of a Martin from the 1880's - 1900 (which would be correct for when GGrandpa was playing...played with his brothers in the pubs / saloons of Fairfield County CT). However, and most intriguingly, it looks a whole lot more like a Holzapfel than a Martin.

Anyway, I'd like to find someone who might be able to help identify the maker and help me determine if it makes sense to make the needed repairs. I'd love to restore it to full playability if possible, but if there's not a lot of value to it (no plans to ever sell it, but I can't justify putting $$$ into an instrument that's only worth $) then I plan to have it "stabilized" and keep it as the treasured family heirloom that it is.

I've included a couple of pics for reference. What do y'all think? What I know needs to be addressed is as follows: numerous cracks on back, neck appears to be separating from body, bridge has raised up on back due to being strung with heavy strings for too many years without the tension being released, at least one rib has lifted and needs to be reglued.

Thanks in advance!

Tammy

[MikeEdgerton]

Can you give me a picture of the entire fret board so I can see where the dots are? It isn't a Martin. It was most likely made in Chicago. I just need to see the dots to make an educated guess. I'm assuming there are no penciled in numbers on the brace inside of the sound hole and no stamped numbers on the inside of the back.

[TC-in-NC]

Hi Mike

Here are a few more pics...if you need something more let me know.

I and the team at the music store where I take mandolin lessons looked everywhere...even down inside with a mechanic's mirror. We were unable to see anything that looked like numbers or letters or a signature. Although, if something had been written in pencil it's possible that it's long since faded away. Like I said, this guitar has had a rough life.

My cousin who gifted this to me is absolutely convinced that she saw the "identical" guitar a few years back on Antiques Roadshow valued at $10k. She also says that this guitar was brought over with Great Grandpa when he came to America in the early 1880's. Personally, I'm taking these stories with a few grains of salt. However, when I started looking online at pictures and whatnot it got me thinking that there may be more to this guitar than meets the eye right now.

Thanks for your help!

Tammy

[sunburst]

Check with David Sheppard in Mt. Airy.

Edit to say; don't get your hopes up too high. It is not a seriously high quality, high value guitar, but it may be worth fixing if only for the value as a family heirloom.

[TC-in-NC]

Check with David Sheppard in Mt. Airy.

Edit to say; don't get your hopes up too high. It is not a seriously high quality, high value guitar, but it may be worth fixing if only for the value as a family heirloom.

Thanks! I'm no expert, and don't pretend to be Considering that I now also have Great Grandpa's mandolin and it's essentially a no-namer (a bowlback, 11 staves, paper label that says "National" on the inside...would also be dated to 1880's - 1900 like the guitar) my guess is that when he came to America he bought what he could afford, and that would likely have been "playable but not high-end" instruments.

Considering the life this guitar has had it could / should be in much worse condition...Great Grandpa played until around 1905 when his then fiancée (Great Grandma) gave him an ultimatum - it was her or the music. I guess she didn't like the fact that her man was getting a lot of female attention while out performing. It has gone from being played in CT then moved to Los Angeles where it lived on a shelf in the garage, then moved to Oregon (again, stored in the garage) and then after he passed in the early 70's it went to central FL where it has been ever since. A whole lot of improper storage and lack of care. It really should be nothing but splinters by now which is in a way a testament to the way things were built "way back when." The mandolin has its fair share of issues too, however I think it may be too far gone to ever play again (that is, without a lot of work). So, focusing on the guitar for now.

Tammy

[CES]

Mallory Penland in Salisbury may be able to help as well, and the guys at Lowe Vintage in Burlington seem to know their stuff...

[TC-in-NC]

Thanks! I already have plans to pay Mallory a visit tomorrow. He was the closest Martin certified repair contact, and I figured if nothing else he may be able to help determine what this is or isn't. I don't get out to Burlington too often but have been to Lowe Vintage and will keep them in mind.

Tammy

[MikeEdgerton]

Tammy, it was made in the US. It's a pretty common instrument that most likely made in Chicago or New Jersey in the early 1900's. It could be a little newer than 1905 as they didn't change a whole lot for a while there. It was probably sold in one of the major catalogs (Sears, Montgomery Ward, etc.) Many of the builders of that era built "for the trade" with no label on it so a retailer or teacher could put their own paper label inside and sell it as their own. Most simply sold the instruments as they were. If you're looking for a return on investment here such as I'll put $500.00 into it and get $2000.00 back it's probably not going to be there. If you want to get a family heirloom playing again then by all means go for it. Over the years I've purchased a whole lot of these guitars on eBay and elsewhere. I never got one that was playable from the get go. Good luck and let us know how it comes out.

As far as identifying the actual builder their are some small things that can make the guessing game easier. Very early Harmony built guitars had the the fretboard dot at the 10th fret as opposed to the now commonly used 9th fret. The problem is that Harmony eventually started putting the dot at the 9th fret like everyone else. The marquetry (binding) was a common product sold by jobbers to many builders and the pyramid style bridge was used by many builders. I was originally leaning towards Harmony as the builder but I suspect it might have been built by Oscar Schmidt. Both sold instruments like this to Sears, Ward, and others. Obviously if there is a feature that isn't visible from the pictures it could be identified as having come from another company. Martin was very staid in their building techniques. They didn't build this guitar.

Oh, and the case it's in was made late in the 1900's, probably 1970's to 80's.

[TC-in-NC]

Hi Mike

Thank you for the input! My initial thought was that it was a more mass produced guitar, but it was the bridge that got me thinking it might be otherwise. I'm no expert, and in my internet searches didn't see any other mfg's that showed the pyramid bridge.

I will definitely keep you posted! Not looking for financial return on investment....no plans to sell it. But, I think it would be fun to return it to playable condition.

As far as the case is concerned....I'm told that the "original" case was some sort of canvas covered item and it had gotten moldy a long time ago. The case in the pictures is one that my cousin bought in the early 70's when she took it from Oregon to central FL. Not the greatest to be sure, but at least it was something. His mandolin wasn't so lucky...no case at all for a looooong time.

Tammy

[MikeEdgerton]

The canvas case would have been a normal product and not stored right they do get pretty bad. Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

[TC-in-NC]

The canvas case would have been a normal product and not stored right they do get pretty bad. Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

Hi All!

I met with Mallory @ Griffin's Guitars this afternoon to talk about the guitar since he'd had a couple of days to go over it.

Long story short, he agrees that it's not a Martin. Rather, it was produced by that famous guitar maker "Someone" back in the day for sale by another company. All told, it's going to take about a month and around $500 to set it right / make it playable.

I also had him take a look at my Great Grandpa's mandolin, which had seen the same rough treatment the guitar had but without benefit of a case. The "bowl" is in surprisingly good shape, but the face has a crack that goes nearly all the way around the top and has sunk on one side. He felt it was really too far gone to play again (at least not with out a ton of work and a lot of $) so he's going to try to "re-train" the sunken part as best he can, and then apply a couple of glue blocks underneath for stability and to give him a solid surface to glue to. My biggest concern was the crack continuing all the way around and the top coming off, so at least I won't have to worry about that. It will live out it's days as a beautiful piece of art / family treasure.

Will let you know when I get the guitar back how it turns out. Am looking forward to it giving voice to a piece of my family's history