Distressed Instruments

[pheffernan]

You'd change your mind if you were a touring musician with a Loar, and you ran into Gary Vessel's latest creation...
Antiqued bench copies completely changed the world of violin making, with folks taking the 25K or so it took to insure a Strad, and had a bench copy made instead...
A whole lotta stress gets relieved with that move...
You watch--the same thing is about to happen in Loar-land, even though they're only running 135-150K or so...

How much does it cost to insure a Loar? How much would a bench copy run?

[Spruce]

...antiquing with a sense of humor...
Do you see it?

[mandobassman]

I think the Diamond back is very well done. If I had the cash ola, well, I would own one.
They are made to look nicely worn from honest use, not thrown out the back of a PU truck.

I feel just the opposite. If you are going to distress it, then make it look old, not fake. I agree with the "not thrown out the back of a PU truck" statement. The purpose is to make it look actually used. The Weber distressing does nothing for me. It just has a couple of small wear marks in is otherwise a shiny, brand new-looking mandolin.

I do, however, agree that the Martin the OP pictured looks terrible.

[Hudmister]

The distressed Martin is for a niche market. If you're sitting on a bench on a downtown city street playing your guitar with the case open on the ground in front of you for tips you can't be playing a pristine Martin HD-28 or a new Gibson Hummingbird, it just wouldn't look right. I wonder if the case is distressed also?

[allenhopkins]

It's all a question of taste. Martin wouldn't be making a "factory roached" instrument if they didn't think there's a market for it. I do my own distressing -- you should see my 00-28G/00-42 "mutt" conversion after I've been playing it for over a decade, lacquer checking, dings, pick scratches and all -- but since most of the stuff I bought was 40+ years old when I bought it, "distressing" was hardly an issue.

What I find off-putting is the phoniness of pretending your instrument is 75 years old, and you got it from an authentic bluegrasser/bluesman/rocker/whatever who used it to record those famous Obscure Records sides in 1949. When in fact you took it outa the box about six months ago, and all the "wear" on it was factory-applied.

If you like the distressed look, fine. If you don't, fine also. Just don't use it to pose...IMHO, anyway.

[Randi Gormley]

I've seen some lovely distressing, although I'm generally not a fan of it simply to make a new instrument look older. Fiddler buddy of mine has a really nice new fiddle she had made for her about 5 years ago that looks like it's been in the family for generations. She doesn't pretend it's old, just lets you draw your own conclusions, but if you ask, she'll tell you exactly how old it is.

One thing I've noticed on the deliberately distressed instruments I've seen pictured -- I don't recall seeing one in person, so take my observations for what they're worth -- is they seem not to mimic the kind of wear i've accidentally put on my own instruments -- the long scratch in the back of my eastman from when i got careless with a button, the finish marring where i put on bug spray and then picked up my mandolin and laid my arm on the pretty shiny finish, the dent where I accidentally dropped my Rogue on the sidewalk while trying to take a photo of it ... all the deliberate distressing looks more like the kind of rubbing you do to make book edges look old. You know, kind of soft and mellow. Not that guitar, of course, that's a whole other thing. Even my snake, which looks beat to pieces, has a more hard-edged kind of wear to it -- not to mention the obviously fixed crack on the side, which doesn't seem to be part of professional distressing!

[Warren H]

Most Baby Boomers didn't play in a band in their younger days, but many wish they had. Instead, they went to dental school or something comparable. While daydreaming about what might have been, they imagine the cool instruments they would have if they only taken the road less traveled.

As the owner of some worn-out instruments, I can tell you that I'd prefer a steady income from a highly paid profession to hazy memories of juke joints and puddle-jumper festivals. If a pretend scuffed-up guitar or mandolin feeds your fantasy life, I guess it's OK to pay the extra cash to own one. I have a cracked guitar that needs a neck set if anyone is interested...

[Spruce]

If you like the distressed look, fine. If you don't, fine also. Just don't use it to pose...IMHO, anyway.

I guess I'm just a poser...

Mad antiquing skills are also essential in restoration work...
I mean, what are you gonna do, put a bright shiny neck with new tuners on a Gibson tenor lute conversion??
(Gary Vessel's work...)

[Timbofood]

Once again Bruce, you make excellent points, the insurance for a "working musician" might be seriously prohibitive. A bench copy is the best option but, that's a different problem.
Is that tenor lute the cottage he I think it is? And in that case "accuracy in aging" is yet again a third story! Creating (or re-creating) the vintage look is a little different from just beating something up, to go the "crass" route.

[Nevin]

My thought is a lot of time and expense goes into doing a decent relic job. I would rather have the money go into an aspect of the sound or stay in my wallet.

[Spruce]

My thought is a lot of time and expense goes into doing a decent relic job. I would rather have the money go into an aspect of the sound or stay in my wallet.

I love old Telecasters, OK...??
I love the way they feel, sound, play, and smell...
Would I plunk down $75K for one?
Hell no...
600 bucks later, I've got a birthyear '51 NoCaster (with my birthdate serial number, no less), and it does the job very nicely...
Poser? Yeah, I guess...
But how else am I gonna get a birthyear Tele or a Loar??
Like I say, YMMV...

[Bertram Henze]

Watch the true master as he takes "distressing" to the next level.

[Austin Bob]

I love old Telecasters, OK...??
I love the way they feel, sound, play, and smell...
Would I plunk down $75K for one?
Hell no...
600 bucks later, I've got a birthyear '51 NoCaster (with my birthdate serial number, no less), and it does the job very nicely...
Poser? Yeah, I guess...
But how else am I gonna get a birthyear Tele or a Loar??
Like I say, YMMV...

Nice, where did you get that?

[allenhopkins]

I guess I'm just a poser....

I'd never accuse you of that -- to me a poser is one who pretends his factory-distressed instrument is a vintage pawnshop relic played by Blind Lemon Pledge back in the day, one he lucked into on a Memphis back street, that now oozes authentic vibe and infuses his playing with all the soul that $1500 can buy at Guitar Center. It's one thing to say "I like the distressed look, and am willing to pay for the extra finish work"; it's another to say, "This quasi-authentic heirloom axe has given me vintage cred, belying my youthful years and dubious skills."

I mean, what are you gonna do, put a bright shiny neck with new tuners on a Gibson tenor lute conversion??...

Well, that's what Gibson would do, or has done, innumerable times -- producing many of the enigmatic instruments ("What's that neck doing on that body?") discussed here on the Cafe. I had a repro 5-string neck made for my '20's "ball-bearing" Mastertone GB-3 guitar-banjo, and didn't expect it to be steel-wooled into looking like it spent 75 years under my bed, or gigging at the local country bar. The discrepancy between new and old components of a restoration, is a story in itself -- one that I'd find more interesting than new tuners dipped in acid to look corroded, or neck finish removed to look well-played.

Jus' my 2¢.

[Mandoplumb]

that[/I] move...
You watch--the same thing is about to happen in Loar-land, even though they're only running 135-150K or so.

Why does the instrument one takes on the road have to look like the Loar at home. Everyone that cares knows it ain't his Loar.

[jdchapman]

These look pretty good. I might be tempted by some of them if they sounded right. I do love my (distressed only by me and my late cat) Silverangel.

But probably not.

I'm no judge of others' tastes. I also think "open-concept" houses are sinister, for example. But I still don't think too many people will pay extra for a 15 series instrument that looks like this, especially when it only comes with a gig bag. Maybe if they'd used hpl for the back and sides and charged 650?

[jdchapman]

Also, though I kind of created the problem in the OP, it's probably worth pointing out that there are two discussions here:

1) Allowing for real artistry from the likes of some of the posters here, and Diamondbacks, and Silverangels, are distressed instruments a good idea in the abstract? (We disagree, it seems.)

and

2) Are Martin's new guitars ugly, no matter what our answers to number one? (Based on stock photo, we seem to agree.)

[Spruce]

Nice, where did you get that?

I put it together...

Why does the instrument one takes on the road have to look like the Loar at home. Everyone that cares knows it ain't his Loar.

John R., the Dawg, Mike M., Mr. Thiele, or any number of Loar owners could hit the stage with a Vessel bench copy of their instrument, and no one who cares would know the difference...
It's part of the mystique...
...and it would eliminate the hassle of lugging around a 250K investment...
Park the damn Loar, and save the hassles of customs, potential damage, and wear and tear...

Hell, I've heard that Sam parked Hoss for all the above reasons...true?
That would be a fun bench copy--get out the weed eater!

This whole scenario has already played out in the violin world, and it just makes sense on so-ooo many levels for folks who have a strong identity with their particular instrument...
Or, at least it does to me...
And again, YMMV...

Oh, and I am a poser...

[fatt-dad]

I'd gladly drive that Vessel! What fun!

I don't like the new Martins. That said, I just bought an OM28A, so my eyes are not wandering. . .

f-d

[Spruce]

I'd gladly drive that Vessel! What fun!

It's pretty spot on...

[Charlie Bernstein]

We guitar folks call it relicking, relicing, or relic-ing. I've never bought a car that wasn't relicked. Meanwhile, it's hard to spot a teenager who isn't wearing jeans with factory-cut holes.

You can get an Eric Clapton guitar with authentic cigarette burns on the headstock. How cool is that?

The funny thing with relicked guitars is that while the finish is a shambles, the electronics are pristine. I'm holding out for a nice new relicked Telecaster with corroded pots, frayed wiring, loose jack connections, a few frets popping out, and tuning machine grips that spin around without turning the tuning machines. Some nice dead skin worked in around all the frets would ice the cake.

This is the age of phony authenticity. Why have real experiences when you can look experienced without actually having to do anything? Anything for art!

[Charlie Bernstein]

Also, though I kind of created the problem in the OP, it's probably worth pointing out that there are two discussions here:

1) Allowing for real artistry from the likes of some of the posters here, and Diamondbacks, and Silverangels, are distressed instruments a good idea in the abstract? (We disagree, it seems.)

and

2) Are Martin's new guitars ugly, no matter what our answers to number one? (Based on stock photo, we seem to agree.)

I considered a Silverangel recently and nixed it strictly because it WAS distressed. Got a very clean Red Line instead. Why pay more for uglification? Just didn't get it.

I might not be any good at repairs or set-up, but I can wear out an instrument with the best of 'em. As a matter of pride, I'd never pay extra for someone else to do it.

Yup. Those Martins are absolutely hideous and should sell like greased hotcakes.

[Charlie Bernstein]

. . . What is Martin aiming at? . . .

Sales. Ask us a hard one!

[William Smith]

I put it together...



John R., the Dawg, Mike M., Mr. Thiele, or any number of Loar owners could hit the stage with a Vessel bench copy of their instrument, and no one who cares would know the difference...
It's part of the mystique...
...and it would eliminate the hassle of lugging around a 250K investment...
Park the damn Loar, and save the hassles of customs, potential damage, and wear and tear...

Hell, I've heard that Sam parked Hoss for all the above reasons...true?
That would be a fun bench copy--get out the weed eater!

This whole scenario has already played out in the violin world, and it just makes sense on so-ooo many levels for folks who have a strong identity with their particular instrument...
Or, at least it does to me...
And again, YMMV...

Oh, and I am a poser...

Right On my friend!!!!

[Bertram Henze]

I...and it would eliminate the hassle of lugging around a 250K investment...
Park the damn Loar, and save the hassles of customs, potential damage, and wear and tear...

Thinking of Mike Edgerton's signature line here - the real Loar is no bargain then?