Here is another short effort. I came across the tune as one of Nigel Gatherer's tunes of the week. I had never heard it being played before I had a go at it but liked the tune. I eventually found a midi on john-chambers.us after this recording or it may have sounded different.
Well played, Malk, and a good choice of tune. I'd never heard it either, but was interested to learn from Nigel Gatherer that it is named after the 11th hole at Turnberry. (From the title, my mind was more drifting towards cricket.) So, it joins Dornoch Links in the select group of tunes named after golf courses, though when it comes to golf I am in the "good walk spoiled" camp.
Like playing Mandolin, golf always offer the hope of improvement. I’m sure to succeed for one of them - well I hope.
Oh, I never had any sense that I would get better at golf! But I do have golfing family members, so I'm always interested in tunes. Practicing Dornoch Links for an upcoming birthday.
I love this Andrew Rankine jig, Malcolm, and it is interesting to hear it played at a slower tempo as you do it here. Many jigs seem to fall apart when not played at jig speed, but this one holds together well as it has a strong melody. Well played!
Great Andy Rankine tune. Nice lively playing there Malk. And happy, optimistic tune too. Here’s the TAB https://www.nigelgatherer.com/tunes/tunes/M/Maidn.html
Since nobody else has had a go at Andrew Rankine's great wee jig I thought I would keep the thread alive after Malcolm's posting. Played on mandolin with acoustic guitar backing and photos quickly taken this afternoon on shores of the Holy Loch - there was a fine rain-free spell around 2.30pm! Thanks for bringing the tune to my notice, Malcolm.
Beautiful bounce Sir! If they won’t get up and dance to this then they won’t. For some reason I can see an Italian merry-go-round, a film?
Thanks, John. Beautifully played and such a fun piece. I also hear Italian merry-go-rounds rather than holes on a golf course. I loved the photos too and am deeply envious (not of the weather, though I suppose you don't get one without the other).
Well played, both! Simon sees an Italian merry-go-round, I see the alps. It's funny how music conjures up those mental images.
I'm with Simon in associating Mediterranean ambience - vino and spaghetti for all. Reminds me of Joe Dolce, and this is Scotland like it would be without the Heilan Man.
I should have said that the Italian feel, for my ears, was from the melodic phrasing. I’m also reminded of a poem or limerick by the phrasing. Is that a DUD UDU picking pattern you’re using John? Or DDD DDD maybe? I like the way you’ve related (my imagined) pick flow to the phrasing, the slight staccato feel and with very Scottish hammer-ons too.
Many thanks, all of you. The Italian allusions are very interesting and I certainly had no thought of making the tune sound Italian while I was playing it. Bertram, thanks for link to the late and much missed Matt McGinn. He was such a great Glasgow comedian but also wrote some very lovely songs too, Magic Shadow Show being a great example of his work. https://youtu.be/A5jZ2VbhFpU Incidentally he spent some time as an English teacher too! Simon, I was using downstrokes almost exclusively on this one. When the jig tempo suits (not too fast) I tend to stick with downstrokes, though on reels I revert to alternate picking which seems to work in 4/4 time. On faster triplets I will use either hammer-ons or begin with an upstroke. For slow airs and waltzes it will be predominantly downstrokes again. To be completely honest, I am never really aware of my picking direction most of the time while actually playing; if I do start to analyse it I go to pieces quickly. The fewer issues of technique I have to think about the more I can give to playing the tune, I think.
I agree John, it’s nice to have a little bit of technique-talk, and a little history of the tunes and authors and the occasional image and some humour to brighten up our threads. I really do miss having the original Song a Week where everyone could move from one theme or even geographical area to another.
Yes, John, Matt McGinn has that satirical style that makes Scottish humour, a bit like Hamish Henderson (D-Day Dodgers).
Thanks, Malcolm and John, for introducing us to this nice jig.
Well hi Malcolm, nice playing! John, why is it I hear, what sounds like an Italian tune? Oh, I just went up and read previous comments, I'm not alone. I'm not going to delve into the "humour"
Haaar! Frithjof, you make me laugh too! And Hillbilly yeeehaaar! (me), Frank’s back in town.
Frank, you're not alone, and welcome to the Institution Of National Synesthetic Music. Nurse Ratched will be dispensing pills shortly.
Ah, Bertram, you are really flying over the cuckoo's nest now! Amazing how a thread begins to develop its own life - in this case from a simple wee Scottish jig through an Italian-flavoured tickler of the musical palate to reminders of that terrifying nurse. I blame all of us.
Well this is my maiden hike to the ‘grande surface’, the Hypermarket. Left home just after sunrise on a dark, cold winters day, I took a couple of very uninteresting vids which I willingly share with you! This was one of those hikes where are you have a clear destination but haven't worked out how to get there. 21 miles, Half of that with a food laden backpack. Oh, by the way I saw the Loch Ness monster, well a couple of them, in a French pond. They were small so I wasn’t very scared. https://youtu.be/DAQyq4XHSWs
Bravo, Simon. Les monstres sont épouvantable (sp?). I had to watch the rest through my fingers. Oddly, the version recorded in the South of France sounds less Mediterranean than the ones from Scotland...
PS I also meant to add that the way you linked your hike to the theme of "Maidens" was a masterclass. We watch and learn.
A lovely, laid-back delivery of this tune, Simon. Very relaxing and peaceful and the pictures certainly suit the atmosphere you have created.
Thanks Gents, yes it’s unfortunately quite different. Not what I had intended at all. I realised that my pick direction was all wrong! With my hesitating Irish 6/8 DUD DUD and strange slow tempo. I had another listen to yours John, then tried the downpicking method in order to get the note lengths more equal. It works! But I couldn’t get it up to your tempo without tripping up. So thanks, I’ll be forced to practise that all day tomorrow! BTW I was relaxed today, sitting down recording, because my legs don’t work.
I started recording as journey of improvement, never thinking one wee tune could set off such an interesting journey musically and physically
Yes, this is song-a-week at its finest, with a new tune being introduced and then shared by several participants with their own take on it. Simon, I liked the idea of the maps. And I'm always amazed at how fluently you can play on the octave. I tried to play mine today for a bit, and my left hand just isn't used to moving that much. It's so much harder than you make it sound.
Simon's rendition seems to belong in the Red Lyon Hornpipe discussion, with the Lyon Observatory featuring in his maps. Just thinking of the implications of African wildlife in the middle of Southern France, making Simon's bike rides even more dangerous... I suspect that's how Philomena Cunk began..
Thanks Dennis I got a bit down the other day while trying to do one of Joe K Walsh’s exercises on Peghead. I kept thinking, ‘why is this so hard?’ Then I remembered, yes, this is an octave mandolin! Joe’s teaching on a mandolin. I had to drop some of Sharon Gilchrist’s (great) lessons for this reason I’m not sure what you’re saying Bertram, they have African animals at the observatory? Or the ragondin/coypu? Or you want my vids to be more exciting?
Yes, Simon, a Lyon is a large cat, isn't it?
Aaaah, now I understand. Without context the links we’re difficult to place. BTW The ragondin is the little animal swimming in the water midway through my vid. I think they come from South America but that’s a long way from Andrew Rankine and the golf course. It’s just a vid of where I am geographically. This the link to the Red Lyon Hornpipe to which Bertram is referring.
Glad you picked up the loose ends, Simon. Ragondin (engl. nutria) are now everywhere in Europe. I hear they taste good.
And ragondins are occasionally seen on golf courses which ties in quite nicely with the tune. Thank you very much. I did actually consider trapping a few of these varmints for my monthly batch of curry sauce, but there is a social cost involved here, not least being: what would the villagers think?
Many thanks to Malk for introducing this tune (and your recording), and to John and Simon for taking up the baton. Like John, I had also never heard of the tune but like it -- I can see the music hall and Mediterranean connotations but I think I'm with Dennis in thinking Alpine dance music. Here is my interpretation, played on tenor guitar, doubled on mandolin the second time around. Vintage Viaten tenor guitar (x2) Mid-Missouri M-0W mandolin https://youtu.be/wWjQ6ADXupk Martin
Well played, Martin. I am in awe of your collection of beautiful instruments and your skill in choosing combinations to fit the piece.
Fine version, Martin. I like the mandolin added second time around. Has the sync on the rhythm track slipped slightly when you were doing the mixing?
Thanks, John and Richard! John: I think what you're hearing is that I had a wobble in the tenor guitar lead playing on the last A part -- when I overdubbed the rhythm track, I had to fudge it to get the pulse back. The mandolin follows the rhythm track and is therefore not quite in sync with the tenor lead for a few bars. I was thinking of starting another take but I had already spent too much time on this one... It's a risk that's hard to avoid when recording the tracks in the order I do, lead first. If the pulse isn't completely steady on the lead, the overdubbed rhythm track isn't in sync. Martin
That is interesting, Martin, I too record melody first then add the backing and/or harmony tracks after and you are absolutely right about the problems encountered if the melody track does not have a regular beat. This is why I love slow airs so much! You can play them with variations in pace and still manage to get a good backing track by playing arpeggios and other wee fillers in the backing. I don't think I could work the other way round. When Ginny and I do our collaborations we also work this way, with Ginny sending me her melody track(s) and I then add the backings while monitoring her track on headphones. I am not sure whether Ginny uses a click track or not when she records her tracks. If she reads this thread then she will no doubt give us the answer. It will be interesting to hear how others do their multi-tracking.
Very authentic Martin, and courageous for using multitracking! I use a click track quite often, it's mainly so that I can come back to my own tracks on YouTube and playalong. I sometimes make vids that include five or six tunes and the tab for each tune, this helps to put the tunes into long-term memory. I do prefer to play along to my own tracks when there is a backing track as well, but I find that my rhythm becomes more relaxed. I agree with John, and professional musicians don't use a click track for lead, well not very often. Another issue I guess for me is that I really don't like doing Post production. At one stage I did consider putting up a camera and microphone and just recording full time. I have more than 1200 tunes now that I play but haven't recorded. I guess I'm lazy! At the end of the day though I would encourage anyone to use a click track on SAW because I'm more interested in learning than in performance.
As someone who is new to recording and still trying various different approaches, I find this discussion really useful. Thanks. I agree with what I take Simon to be saying: I don't find the mechanics of recording themselves very interesting. They are a means to an end. I do all mine on GarageBand, unless I record directly to camera. I have no idea how to connect the two. And I have significant problems, for example with ambient noise. I know many of you have more advanced ways of doing this. My biggest musical weakness (well, I'm sure you can all point out others) is keeping time. I put this down to years of playing solo guitar and not recording myself. It was only when I started recording a few months ago that I could hear how bad I was. So, I have used click tracks to help with that. I also mentioned Strum Machine on another thread. I have sometimes used that as a sort of click track while recording. It all helps - though for some reason I had immense difficulty getting the counting right on this piece, Maidens. I remember reading something here months ago - although the thread might have been much older - where Barbara talked about recording a melody track first but not ultimately using it. I have found that useful advice, particularly when the melody passes from one instrument to another. It helps having a track running right the way through that can be deleted at the end. And because the important thing is keeping time, it doesn't even matter if you fluff some notes.
My take on this. I apologize to those who come from countries that don't play cricket. I can't imagine how awful that must be. Also, this video will be incomprehensible. A maiden in cricket is when the bowler delivers six balls to the batter without the latter scoring. Sounds boring (and sometimes it is) but it can also be electrifying, as in these six deliveries from Michael Holding to Geoffrey Boycott in Barbados in 1981, at 90+ mph.
Wow! There has been a lot of activity since I last visited the Cafe. Nice playing by everyone!
Hi Richard and Simon, I suspect the discussion about recording a melody track and then not using it was from me -- I used to record like that: record the lead to a click track, then record the rhythm and any harmonies, then discard the original lead and record a new one. I moved away from this and towards my current much more naturalistic method because I found it too limiting and the resulting tracks often too rigid for musical expression. I have to say I'm much happier with this and I have no intention of returning to a click track as generally I think my timing on dance tunes is pretty solid, and on airs and pieces that aren't strict tempo I have much more liberty to vary tempo as required. I'm with Richard in that I'm not that interested in the recording process, but I am interested in the arrangements and harmonies and unless I get some more musicians in front of my microphone, that means having to overdub. "Maidens" has a small rhythmic glitch, but I don't think it's critial or overly jarring (others may have a different view). Not entirely sure if it's in the lead or the rhythm track. If I feel like it I may try to update the rhythm which is a pretty quick and easy job, but no promises. Martin [My post crossed with Richard's latest post of his own recording -- nicely played!]
Good to see the thread developing, folks. The recordings I have made where I play the melody on mandolin then octave then sometimes both are always done by playing and recording the melody right through to cover the length of the final recording. Then I record the second instrument while monitoring the original track, generally playing this one right through as well. I use direct monitoring as this helps avoid latency problems, but my setup has very low latency anyway in spite of being very dated now. I can then cut the parts from each track that I am not going to include. Chords and bass lines or piano parts are added last. I have to say that unlike Simon and Richard I do enjoy playing around with the recording process. And the learning process goes on!
Richard's rendition has a chimes side to it, created by the banjo, I guess. My association engine can't decide between Christmas and For a Few Dollars More I still don't get it - cricket seems to be kind of a cowboy duel between the bowler and the batter, the latter protecting the wicket, but what are all these other idle bystanders for (just standing there and suddenly aimlessly running nowhere in particular)?
https://on.soundcloud.com/8kkGvcti7jjWnzU38 Anyone know how to embed an Iron Maiden SoundCloud link?
Bertram says, "I still don't get it - cricket seems to be kind of a cowboy duel between the bowler and the batter, the latter protecting the wicket, but what are all these other idle bystanders for (just standing there and suddenly aimlessly running nowhere in particular)? Just to blow your mind completely, Bertram, when they play what is called a Test Match (which is a major contest between two cricketing nations) it can go on for up to FIVE DAYS and there will be a series of those matches! Only respite is when it rains and the players have to stop. Obviously why test matches have never caught on much in Scotland where rain would never be allowed to stop anything or we would never get anything done!
Bertram, I could hear my version playing in the saloon the moment before the doors swing open and everyone goes silent. And the cowboy duel is a good analogy for the bowler/batter contest. (The other guys do have a role, however.) I see that I have no allies on this topic, so I shall retreat gracefully. In past times, some Test matches were timeless - they went on until there was a result. One in 1939 went on for, I think, 11 days before the visiting team had to go and catch their boat home. (Impending world war might have been a factor too, otherwise they'd probably still be playing.) I won't jeopardize my status as an honorary Scot by pointing out how long major golf tournaments last, or how many of them there are.
Although I'm not a native speaker of any of those games, I think I understand cricket (and its appeal) better than rugby or golf. As long as you don't ask me the funny names of all those fielding positions. But I also thought that old Monty Python sketch was fitting - "Extremely well not played at all!" Martin's recording adds another twist to this tune. The tenor guitar is a nice addition. The recording discussion is always interesting, too. I haven't found the best method for me yet. Playing the melody without metronome is what I'm used to from practice, but it makes adding the accompaniment much harder. Starting with the melody with metronome is distracting because I'm not used to it. It also exposes all weaknesses on the tricky bits of the melody. And starting with chords is surprisingly difficult without hearing the melody to help. After too many unsuccessful takes on my current project yesterday evening, I'm having a break today.
Dennis: "It [the metronome] also exposes all weaknesses on the tricky bits of the melody." -that’s my favourite part, using the metronome to seek out my clumsy finger movements, and then ironing them out flat! Love it. It’s because often, without the metronome, I’m not sure where the issue lies. Quite a few times I’ve wondered what tempo one of the famous mandolinists is playing at, so I turn on the metronome and am shocked to hear how much they are sliding around with the rhythm.
