flat top with F holes

[JeffD]

I was explaining mandolins to a friend of mine and kind of doing a taxonomy of the different types, and I noticed a category for which I could not think of an example. That would be the flat top with F holes. I am sure they are out there, but I can't recall one.


The question then is, does a flat top with F holes distinguish itself from a flat top with oval hole in the same way as with arch tops?

Any direct experience? Any A-B comparisions?

[Jim Garber]

Flatiron made some around 1980. Here is one pic. This guy has a sound clip, too.

I would imagine that the tone would be changed if the bracing was different, say x-braced vs. tone bars or transverse.

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

I remember Chris Baird of Arches built some of his FT flat top models with F holes when they first came out. But a quick check on his site only shows the FT-O(val) model, so it must have been discontinued.

[TDMpicker]

I've done a flat top/Army Navy style with F-holes.
You can see photos Here

[multidon]

If memory serves The Mandolin Store sells flat tops from a small maker. Red Valley maybe or something like that. At one point they had one of his flat tops with f holes.

I am curious about this and how rare they seem to be. We make such a fuss about the tonal differences between oval an f holes on carved top instruments. Does that difference not translate to the flat tops? Or is there a reason why there arent more f hole flat tops? Is it because they don't work well?

[Marty Jacobson]

Putting the sound hole off to the side, whether it's shaped like a violin-type F or a dragon or whatever doesn't make as huge a difference on flat-top/flat-back mandolins. There is a dramatic difference between carved top and flat top/back mandolins, which will be there regardless of the bracing and sound port design.
Additionally, when a builder uses an oval hole on a carved instrument, they usually change several other things versus an f-hole instrument from the same builder. Generally the air volume, neck length, bridge position, graduations, and bracing are all factors, as well as the sound hole position, shape, and size.

[JeffD]

Additionally, when a builder uses an oval hole on a carved instrument, they usually change several other things versus an f-hole instrument from the same builder. Generally the air volume, neck length, bridge position, graduations, and bracing are all factors, as well as the sound hole position, shape, and size.

Very true, and something I often miss. There is a lot going on besides the shape of the hole. Lemme ask though, is the same true for flat tops ovals versus f holes. Perhaps it doesn't matter much at all in the case of flat tops.

[JeffD]

Besides trying to fill out a taxonomy, I am curious because I really love the sound of a good flat top oval hole mandolin. My Weber Aspen II is one of the unsung heroes of mandolin types. It doesn't do everything, nothing does, but what it does do it does real real well.

Though I have only tried one, I have heard many Fylde mandolins and they do what they do very very well.

I have also heard and played several Big Muddys, and they are a fantastic bang for the buck, and unless you are overly bluegrasscentric a Big Muddy could well make you happy for ever.

So I am curious to try a flat top F hole, and hear what its like.

[Jim Garber]

I would think it does matter. Depending on where you place the f-holes you might limit the placement of an X-bracing. That would certainly affect the tone.

BTW as far as historical instruments, the Shutts were early flattops with f-holes. This was from Banana's site.

One other flattop is the Brazilian bandolim. Definitely different tone from carved instruments.

[JeffD]

Yes you are right, I forgot about the Shutts. And I have played two of them and really enjoyed them.

[Ben Milne]

This thread prompted my to look into the Shutts, but all I could find online besides one of these two, listed as faux Shutts were carved top and back instruments.

[fatt-dad]

Kentucky (Japan) Mande one too - just like the Flatiron.

f-d