Who is the ASCAP ?

[Leon Peoples]

Rumor has it they did a good job of shutting down 3 Jams this week.
best..........joe

[jaycat]

Rumor has it they did a good job of shutting down 3 Jams this week.
best..........joe

I am, for one. Jaycat Publishing, member in good standing since 2001.

It's the American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers. The idea behind their founding was to help songwriters get the royalties due to them. No disputing that they become overzealous from time to time.

BTW, another ASCAP member you may be familiar with is one Chris Thile.

[Tim2723]

Ex-member here; my bandmate is a member in good standing since 1970-something. They are indeed over-zealous at times and I've come to think of them as self-serving and superfluous in the age of file sharing (but I digress). I also let my Union membership lapse, if that matters.

If the events were indeed simple jams, then it's likely just a rumor. There's no money in jams and they're all about the money.

[Leon Peoples]

Well, Im sure they are a good assc, but they got a little intense with a building owner that has supported open and beginner jams at 3 locations and he shut down, pretty good deal huh ?
Best/joe

[Tim2723]

This is a hot button for me, so I'm out. Sorry to hear about your trouble.

[Leon Peoples]

Im out too, moderator close this thread at your convience.
Best.......joe

[Tim2723]

Good call, Joe.

[lenf12]

ASCArrangersP.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Jim Garber]

They went overboard in 1996 when they wanted to charge the Girl Scouts for songs they sing around campfires. Story here.

The story began in 1995, when Ascap approached the American Camping Association and said it wanted to charge for copyrighted music performed at the group's 2,300 camps. ''You've got to be kidding,'' said the association's executive vice president, John Miller, who quickly found a lawyer well versed in the details of Federal copyright.

The law says songwriters are entitled to royalties for copyrighted work used in ''public performance,'' which it defines as a place ''where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered.'' The lawyer determined that Ascap was indeed within bounds, and that nonprofit camps, like the Girl Scouts, were not necessarily exempt from music licensing fees.

[Joseph Baker]

At the Black Swamp jam in Woodburn, IN, every song or tune we play must be in public domain.
The moderator makes that quite clear before the jam begin

Joseph Baker

[Tobin]

I just checked out the ASCAP website, looking for some sort of guidelines or rules that amateur players should follow in order to keep this organization's minions at bay. I didn't see any obvious link to such. Does anyone have a link to some source information on what the rules are? I would think that with thousands of jams going on in this country, they would want to let people know where they draw the line, or what the exceptions are.

[Gregory Tidwell]

Ascap? Haven't worn one of those for years!

[foldedpath]

I just checked out the ASCAP website, looking for some sort of guidelines or rules that amateur players should follow in order to keep this organization's minions at bay. I didn't see any obvious link to such. Does anyone have a link to some source information on what the rules are? I would think that with thousands of jams going on in this country, they would want to let people know where they draw the line, or what the exceptions are.

Their definitions and exemptions are listed here:

http://www.ascap.com/licensing/licen...q.aspx#general

In particular, check the section on "What is a public performance?" where exemptions are listed for worship services (not transmitted) and face-to-face instruction in educational institutions. If you're playing in a jam at any venue that would normally qualify as a business, like a restaurant or pub, ASCAP (and BMI) will consider that fair game for licensing.

[Tobin]

Good to know, thanks. Sounds like they've got quite a lock on this.

I'm still a little confused as to what's protected and what's not. For example, I used their "Clearance Express" page to look for a commonly-played song, Whiskey Before Breakfast. It looks like there are a number of artists who lay claim to recordings of it. So what happens if I play this tune in public without paying their extortion fee? How do they separate their protected version from any number of public variations of the tune?

[MikeEdgerton]

This comes around every now and then. Here are some older message threads. One of the places I played a lot in the past had a license. For those that mistakenly think that music in the public domain is untouchable, it appears you can copyright an arrangement and those could get you into trouble.

[DataNick]

Jams having to go underground!...What's next? Identification badges with "Juden"
or in my case "Negroid" on them?

Can I die already and get this over with!...

[bratsche]

Ascap? Haven't worn one of those for years!

You're thinking of "asshat", aren't you?

bratsche

[TheBlindBard]

Lots of good points brought up here.
I'll be sure to browse through the info given.
I'll shut up now before I go on a rebellious ramble.

[mmcraig]

Good to know, thanks. Sounds like they've got quite a lock on this.

I'm still a little confused as to what's protected and what's not. For example, I used their "Clearance Express" page to look for a commonly-played song, Whiskey Before Breakfast. It looks like there are a number of artists who lay claim to recordings of it. So what happens if I play this tune in public without paying their extortion fee? How do they separate their protected version from any number of public variations of the tune?

Nothing will happen to you if you play without paying because it is up to the venue, bar, club, etc. to pay the fees, not the performer.

[JeffD]

That is why your local restaurant does not sing the traditional version of Happy Birthday. They sing their own version.

The traditional version is owned. You cannot sing it or play it at a public performance or at a jam in a public business. It is against the law to sing Happy Birthday in public without paying a royalty.

[bratsche]

I've heard that before, Jeff, but I've also heard "Happy Birthday" sung lots of times in public places and in restaurants, even by the serving staff. That is, unless "their own version" just has a single word subtly changed in it, so it isn't exactly the same as the traditional one... I dunno. Seems like a "stupid law" that's just itching to be broken.

bratsche

[DataNick]

Just posted this on a related thread:
I was just informed that this can be used to counter ASCAP/BMI:

"...He successfully rebuffed ASCAP on this matter some years ago. The exemption used is that the jam on Thursday night is considered a music class, and falls under an educational exemption...."

Our jam is a "beginner" friendly jam in which instruction is given out/offered consistently throughout the evening by those of us who are more accomplished to beginners...how I got my start was at this jam.

Hope someone can use this info, maybe draft a jam guidelines document that includes education as a provision, then go for it!

Hope this helps!

[TheBlindBard]

That sounds perfect, actually.

[moxie]

Well Great! We,ve devised a way to cheat the songwriters of their due. They all live in Beverly Hills don't they? Way to stick it to the Man! MMc

[re simmers]

I assume Marilyn Monore paid to sing happy birthday to Kennedy???

Bob