Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 164

Thread: the mandolin in bluegrass?

  1. #101
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    8,306
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph johansson View Post
    I simply don't see how anyone can ignore the role of the guitar.(But, of course, I play the guitar myself).

    Again, I'm remarking on the simplified view that the mandolin either plays solo or chops on the afterbeat. I refer to early recordings of Monroe. E.g., on Little Cabin Home on the Hill he kicks the song off, plays countermelodies to Lester Flatt's vocal solos, and tremoloes behind the fiddle solos. On Sweetheart You Done Me Wrong, there's a lot going on with both the fiddle and mandolin behind the verses. I believe Monroe took to simplifying the role of the mandolin for two reasons. One was that he concentrated more on his singing and did almost all the lead vocals on the verses.
    The other, maybe, to create more room for the fiddle (or multiple fiddles).
    I cool with the idea that the guitar, bass. banjo (during a mando break) and even the fiddle (with chops) at times all contribute to keeping the beat. My main point is Monroe considered the mandolin chop to be like the snare drum -- his thoughts.
    Bernie
    ____
    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

  2. #102
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Orgiva, Spain
    Posts
    1,366

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by FLATROCK HILL View Post

    As far as getting the thread back on track....well...it's not like we've been spending the last few pages discussing Dizzy Gillespie.
    No, you haven't, I agree. But the discussion has centred on who invented bluegrass in recent posts rather than how is the mandolin used in bluegrass. While that discussion may have some relevance to the OP's question, it has diverted attention away from how it could be or is used in various contexts and sub-genres.

  3. #103
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    8,306
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by NG53 View Post
    Is it not a bit pointless arguing whether Bill Monroe was the key person in establishing Bluegrass? The OP's question is about the role of the mandolin in bluegrass. Should we not discuss the current role of mandolin in bluegrass? We can either choose to stick with Munroe's tradition or let it evolve into different forms based on what sounds good.

    Do we need to play blistering versions of the songs and tunes or can we slow it down a bit and add more lilt, variation and tone? Look at what Mike Crompton and Matt Flinner and others have done to create their own versions of bluegrass mandolin. If you have a copy of Matt Flinner's Allstart Bluegrass Jam Along, there are some beautiful slow and medium versions of some of the popular tunes. And what about Sam Bush's approach to rhythm playing - it is something else. He can play in the traditional way and he can play out of it.

    BTW I am happy not to hear banjo too often. The crosspicking gets to me after a while. In contrast, I love cross-picking on the mandolin when done well and when interspersed in a melody. I like variation in the way Bluegrass mandolin is played in a Blue grass context. The mandolin as a solo instrument in a bluegrass band can be awe inspiring when done well.

    Let's get the thread back on track.
    Yes let's get back on track. But the discussion of Bill Monroe's role in bluegrass was germane because he stated his opinion of the mandolin's role --hence the stature of his opinion is relevant!

    Added later: Well OK, I see you posted your view on this at the same time!
    Bernie
    ____
    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

  4. #104
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kalamazoo, MI.
    Posts
    7,241

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    OK, one hundred posts in and not one of all the esteemed folks have left out the simple fact the Bill Monroe decided to call his band "The Bluegrass Boys". It is said that he chose the name to honor his home state of Kentucky. It was not to define a genre of music but his way of identifying where he was. The definition of the genre simply developed over the years. Good night America, France, the UK and any other interested or disinterested parties, nationalities, principalities or powers. Go make some music and stop whining
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  5. #105
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    8,306
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    OK, one hundred posts in and not one of all the esteemed folks have left out the simple fact the Bill Monroe decided to call his band "The Bluegrass Boys". It is said that he chose the name to honor his home state of Kentucky. It was not to define a genre of music but his way of identifying where he was. The definition of the genre simply developed over the years. Good night America, France, the UK and any other interested or disinterested parties, nationalities, principalities or powers. Go make some music and stop whining
    He could have called it Apple Cobbler after his mother's favorite dessert -- what difference would it make? The issue is not why or what he named the music whatever he did --that is irrelevant.

    The relevant point is that fact that he created the genre in the first place, and he played the mandolin as well, so his views on the role of the mandolin in the music (whatever it is called) are noteworthy and important.

    Your suggestion to stop posting and start picking is a good one.
    Bernie
    ____
    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

  6. #106
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kalamazoo, MI.
    Posts
    7,241

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    I think we are on the same page Bernie, I like the apple cobbler idea which is as valid as any other. My point was more along the line of the innovators rarely have the foresight to understand that they have started a genre. How does anyone know that what they started will last for more than fifteen minutes of fame? (Thank you, Andy Warhol)
    And to be honest, he played in a band, not a genre. All's fair, still friendly. Time to pick!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  7. #107

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Franc Homier Lieu View Post
    My point, which the first part of your conditional actually hints at, would be that it is more accurate to say that Bluegrass invented Bill Monroe. When I say that the idea of an individual inventing a genre is problematic, I mean the theory in the philosophy of music that music is not about invention but rather discovery. (Did the first person to play a 4th, a 5th, an octave 'invent' music?) Monroe was the first instantiation of the genre. He was, as you say, already in the genre. In music, as in most things, genera are not 'created', and they are certainly not created by individuals within them. The individuals can only be expressions of them.
    Well, if you want to claim that one word really means what another word means, then you can say anything you please and never be wrong.

  8. The following members say thank you to OldSausage for this post:


  9. #108
    Registered User bjewell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Ione CA in the beautiful gold country east of Sactown
    Posts
    399

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Thanks O.S. and I bet that Anthony Weiner thang was tough on ya for a few weeks... ;- )

  10. #109
    Stop the chop!
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    europe
    Posts
    1,397
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by NG53 View Post
    No, you haven't, I agree. But the discussion has centred on who invented bluegrass in recent posts rather than how is the mandolin used in bluegrass. While that discussion may have some relevance to the OP's question, it has diverted attention away from how it could be or is used in various contexts and sub-genres.
    The question is not who "invented" Bluegrass but rather whether anyone did. I think it's much more accurate to state that Monroe led the band that inspired the genre. There was of course no way to predict that it would, and that was certainly not Monroe's idea. In the beginning he wasn't the least bit flattered by imitators and changed labels when the Stanley Brothers were signed to Columbia. And, more crucial to the OP's question, Monroe's music, and his use of the mandolin, changed over the years, well into
    the 50's.

  11. #110
    Stop the chop!
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    europe
    Posts
    1,397
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by bjewell View Post
    Zzzz...
    OK, so that's your argument. How convincing.

  12. The following members say thank you to ralph johansson for this post:


  13. #111
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Orgiva, Spain
    Posts
    1,366

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Ralph, I don't think there is a definitive answer on whether Bill Munroe invented bluegrass or not. He was inspirational in getting interest going in a new genre of music. Can we assume that he along with other contemporaries started a new style of music? Ok from that point can we discuss the role of the mandolin in bluegrass music? How is it used in waltzes,fiddle tunes, and songs in bluegrass.

    Blindbard if I assume correctly is looking for more information from the folks how the mandolin is played to create certain kinds of dynamics and effects in the bluegrass band context. It is a good question that has not been answered in full yet.
    Nic Gellie

  14. #112
    Registered User bjewell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Ione CA in the beautiful gold country east of Sactown
    Posts
    399

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    NG, his name is Monroe, not Munroe and to say "he along with other contemporaries started a new style of music" is preposterous. Mr. Monroe was the originator of Bluegrass; others quickly followed. To say otherwise is totally incorrect.

  15. The following members say thank you to bjewell for this post:


  16. #113

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    At the risk of riling the Monroe faithful, to credit Bill Monroe with being single handedly responsible for what we know as Bluegrass today is simply incorrect. The truth is his sound was foundering until he lucked up and hired one Lester Flatt. Flatt talked him into hiring Earl Scruggs and that is when it all came together around Christmas 1945. Earl Scruggs was the one who put the fire and drive in Bluegrass. IMHO Earl Scruggs should get as much or more credit as the "Father of Bluegrass" than Monroe.

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mandosummers For This Useful Post:


  18. #114
    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Fallbrook, CA
    Posts
    3,837

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandosummers View Post
    At the risk of riling the Monroe faithful, to credit Bill Monroe with being single handedly responsible for what we know as Bluegrass today is simply incorrect. The truth is his sound was foundering until he lucked up and hired one Lester Flatt. Flatt talked him into hiring Earl Scruggs and that is when it all came together around Christmas 1945. Earl Scruggs was the one who put the fire and drive in Bluegrass. IMHO Earl Scruggs should get as much or more credit as the "Father of Bluegrass" than Monroe.
    "The Truth" according to you. When you have done the necessary documentary investigative WORK, then publish a paper, adequately foot-noted and referenced. Then I'll read it Sir, and weigh your dissertation against the wealth of work established already by respected musicologists.

    Let's not be so quick to state "The Truth", when it's really an opinion!
    1994 Gibson F5L made by Bruce Weber's team


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
    Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DataNick For This Useful Post:


  20. #115

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNick View Post
    "The Truth" according to you. When you have done the necessary documentary investigative WORK, then publish a paper, adequately foot-noted and referenced. Then I'll read it Sir, and weigh your dissertation against the wealth of work established already by respected musicologists.

    Let's not be so quick to state "The Truth", when it's really an opinion!

  21. #116

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    This directly from Lance LeRoy, not me......

    "Lance LeRoy, bluegrass enthusiast, band manager and well-respected Lester Flatt biographer, gave his opinion of bluegrass at its best, “Looking back on it all, I think it would require someone with extreme tunnel vision to dispute the viewpoint that bluegrass music was first introduced to the world there around Christmas of 1945 when Earl first appeared on the Grand Ole Opry with Bill and the Blue Grass Boys. I don’t buy this ‘bluegrass as we know it today’ cop-out. I regard it as being the first time bluegrass music was introduced to the world...PERIOD! It took Earl’s three-finger roll on the five-string banjo to supply the music’s single most distinguishing characteristic. The four other parts were already here; he added the fifth one that is absolutely essential if you are going to have bluegrass music. The sound of the banjo played with a three-finger roll has always symbolized ‘bluegrass’ to both fans and the general public as well. I doubt that any other of the instruments even come close.
    “Now I’m certainly not suggesting that Earl created bluegrass music,” continued LeRoy, “but then again neither did any other one individual. Bill Monroe was the band leader and, as a Grand Ole Opry member, provided the forum. Whether through fate, blind luck or whatever, he assembled what I think is the first and the best group ever to play bluegrass. Nobody has been able to improve on it since. For all this, he richly deserves to be called the ‘Father of Bluegrass Music’. It’s one of those honorary titles that befits the role he played in that band. Bill Monroe has been symbolic of bluegrass music throughout the world for a long, long time. In reality, though, bluegrass had a number of fathers.”

  22. The following members say thank you to Mandosummers for this post:


  23. #117

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Didn't Bill Murray invent bluegrass?

  24. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to OldSausage For This Useful Post:


  25. #118
    Au fol la marotte
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Cote Rotie.
    Posts
    823
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    Didn't Bill Murray invent bluegrass?
    No sir, but i do believe he invented a bluegrass hybrid,

    Carl Spackler: This is a hybrid. This is a cross, ah, of Bluegrass, Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern California Sensemilia. The amazing stuff about this is, that you can play 36 holes on it in the afternoon, take it home and just get stoned to the bejeezus-belt that night on this stuff.

  26. #119
    Registered User bjewell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Ione CA in the beautiful gold country east of Sactown
    Posts
    399

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    Didn't Bill Murray invent bluegrass?
    No OS, "Lance LeRoy, bluegrass enthusiast, band manager and well-respected Lester Flatt biographer.." Says otherwise and has no vested interest in it except for the fact that he is well respected despite being a band "manager" (band joke there) and did a biography on a Lester. That leaves Bill out for sure...

  27. #120
    Registered User bjewell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Ione CA in the beautiful gold country east of Sactown
    Posts
    399

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Hey, M. Marmot, did you get my e-mail?

  28. #121
    Au fol la marotte
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Cote Rotie.
    Posts
    823
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Yes sir, i did - expect a reply later this evening.



    Just to keep things on track here - how about folks post some good videos to demonstrate the sound of the mandolin in bluegrass for the O.P.?
    Last edited by M.Marmot; Sep-26-2013 at 10:44am. Reason: keeping it on topic-ish

  29. #122
    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Fallbrook, CA
    Posts
    3,837

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandosummers View Post
    This directly from Lance LeRoy, not me......

    "Lance LeRoy, bluegrass enthusiast, band manager and well-respected Lester Flatt biographer, gave his opinion of bluegrass at its best..."
    OK,

    So I am to hold the OPINION of Lance LeRoy as equal in weight to Lomax, The Conways of UNC Chapel Hill, Rintzler, Rosenberg, Cantwell, and other musicologists.

    Sorry, but I don't hold opinions on equal footing with well-respected academic research...you can blow smoke on that in your reality all you want to...this is a fool's errand!

    I'm out!
    1994 Gibson F5L made by Bruce Weber's team


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
    Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel

  30. #123
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    victoria, canada
    Posts
    3,514

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandosummers View Post
    At the risk of riling the Monroe faithful, to credit Bill Monroe with being single handedly responsible for what we know as Bluegrass today is simply incorrect. The truth is his sound was foundering until he lucked up and hired one Lester Flatt. Flatt talked him into hiring Earl Scruggs and that is when it all came together around Christmas 1945. Earl Scruggs was the one who put the fire and drive in Bluegrass. IMHO Earl Scruggs should get as much or more credit as the "Father of Bluegrass" than Monroe.
    Actually, that's not quite the truth. It wasn't Lester Flatt who talked Monroe into hiring Earl Scruggs. Flatt was actually opposed to having another banjo player as he felt the previous one ("Stringbean" aka Dave Akeman) had hampered the band's sound. He quickly changed his mind after hearing Earl. According to fiddler Jim Shumate, it was he who facilitated the audition with Earl.

  31. #124
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    12,210

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtone2 View Post
    George is more than just an immaculate beard-he also knows something about the essence of bluegrass...

    I'm supposed to take the word of a man who can't pronounce "paroxysm"?

    Interesting video, but the idea that the Scruggs roll had been around for hundreds of years would be firmly rejected by any scholar of banjo playing I'm aware of.
    Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.

    Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!

    Lyon & Healy Wood Thormahlen Andersen Bacorn Yanuziello Fender National Gibson Franke Fuchs Aceto Three Hungry Pit Bulls

  32. #125

    Default Re: the mandolin in bluegrass?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlindBard View Post
    Hello, all,
    A few days ago we went to go buy some plants for our backyard and wound up buying this cool-looking grass that was a blueish-grey in color.
    I laughed and made a joke about bluegrass. Then started wondering: How is the mandolin used in bluegrass? I don't listen to it much but really love the name and would like to listen to it more, but not sure where to start. I know in ITM the mandolin is mainly used for melody, but know little to nothing about bluegrass.
    thanks
    Listen to it. Listen to Monroe for starters, there are others mentioned on this forum. Thile is not a bluegrass player.

  33. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mike Bunting For This Useful Post:


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •