Can You Make Fretted Notes Ring as Clear as Open Strings?

[jshane]

A question for the group:

I find myself consistently re-working chord voicings to get open strings to ring out----particularly if I can get an open drone to sustain through a series of chords. This obviously places limits on both key selection and chord voicings. I always thought I had reasonable right-hand technique, but I have never been able to get a fretted note to play as clear and bell-like as an open string. Not in a former life on guitar, nor in my present happy incarnation with the mandolin.

Has anyone in the group found this holy grail? If so, care to illuminate us lesser-folk? If I could get it acceptably close it would really help when playing in certain keys.

Thanks in advance for any input-

-j.

[tkdboyd]

Although master players with instruments finely crafted and immaculately set up can come closer than us mortals, your quest for equivalency will be about as fruitful as searching for the Holy Chalice. However, as in some of the myths, the searching is a gainful practice even if you never find perfection.

Of course I have been stuck at Castle Anthrax for some time and can't seem to get any further in my quest!

[Charlieshafer]

Nope. Not happening, unfortunately. That's why some players choose notes and chords that avoid open strings; so that the notes end as soon as the finger is lifted. It's also the stuff that your fingertips are made of, skin isn't hard enough. About the only way you could approach it is to put sewing thimbles on your finger tips so there's absolutely no deflection of the skin on the fingertip. But wait, this opens up a whole new technique opportunity. Individual finger slide mandolin.

[Jacob]

To my ears, the sound of open strings with a zero fret is more equal to the sound of fretted notes.
But that is going on the opposite direction, reducing the ring of the open strings.

[Bertram Henze]

Press as hard as ever you like - the problem is not your finger. The problem is that stopping the string makes it shorter.
The shorter a string, the shorter its sustain. If you want stopped strings to ring out, get a long-scale zouk - and hands off that capo!

[jshane]

Damn. I had hoped that there was this miracle solution that had escaped me all this time.... should-a known better...

Thanks, guys.

-j.

[Tom Wright]

Capo-ed guitars work pretty well. The fret is a harder material than the nut and rings just fine--the problem is fingering. You need to fret without being too gentle, but you have to keep the pad of your finger from any contact with the string in front of the fret. This is not easy with the close spacing of the short scale and you almost always have the tiniest bit of pad sitting on the fret a little. On the long-scale guitar this is easier.

The other issue is it's difficult to hold the finger down as long as needed in that perfect placement, so you inevitably shorten the sustain by lifting your fretting finger too soon. Accuracy and hard calluses make this easier, but it is always easier to just bang on an open string.

Being just a bit on top of the fret is a sweeter, warmer sound, though, and is not bad. The slight damping takes away the jangle when picking melodies and is likely one source of different tone from some players. And playing right on top of the fret with light pressure is a way to get a punchy chop, as if the instrument was fretless.

[mrmando]

This is why people take up playing the harp.

[JeffD]

The shorter a string, the shorter its sustain. If you want stopped strings to ring out, get a long-scale zouk - and hands off that capo!

True enough, but setting aside the duration of the sustain, and focusing on the quality of the tone. I don't notice much difference between open and fretted notes in terms of tone quality. There may be some in A/B comparisons, (like the seventh fret against the open string above), but in normal playing my open strings don't seem to sound different enough to be noticed. They don't distinguish themselves from the fretted notes to the experienced listener, much less to the casual listener.

[Mike Bunting]

The other issue is it's difficult to hold the finger down as long as needed in that perfect placement, so you inevitably shorten the sustain by lifting your fretting finger too soon. Accuracy and hard calluses make this easier, but it is always easier to just bang on an open string.

One of the biggest problems I find with beginning students is that they do not give notes their full value, i.e. often they seem to give quarter notes the same time as an eighth note.

[Pete Martin]

The longer the vibrating string length, the more a string rings and sustains

[Charlieshafer]

String length is obviously an issue, but even way down in first position, you're just not going to get the sustain with a fingertip vs. a hard nut or fret. easy answer here is no solution.

[Ivan Kelsall]

To clarify the question - are you meaning the 'sustain' of the note(s) ie. how long they sound for,or the clarity of the note(s) ?. If by 'ringing' you do mean the sustain,then as has been said above,it doesn't happen like that. If you mean the 'clarity' of the notes ie.how well they sound when fretted & addressing the 'clear' in your question,then a slightly higher action can help.One of the very first things i learned on here when i came to mandolin,is that a low action is fine for the left hand,but sometimes at the risk of ill defined notes,especially on the A & E strings.Both my mandolins are set up with an action possibly a tad higher than normal & the teble notes are crystal clear,but as you fret the strings higher up the neck,the sustain always suffers,
Ivan

[jshane]

To clarify the question - are you meaning the 'sustain' of the note(s) ie. how long they sound for,or the clarity of the note(s) ?.

Thanks for the input, Ivan. I DO mean "clarity of tone" as opposed to "sustain". I have had 2 suggestions that I am going to try-- yours, that involves raising the action a touch (Will try on my next string-change, likely within the week)-- and another suggestion sent to me privately by someone I know, but didnt realize was watching this site-- he suggested that heavier guage strings might also help. I am going to try a slightly heavier set of strings for next week's string-change as well.

Thanks again.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Be aware that heavier strings usually means that you need to pick slightly harder to get the same volume.The strings are literally 'heavier' almost imperceptibly so,but heavier means more effort is required. What brand / gauge of strings have you been using ?.
A very popular (possibly the most popular) strings are D'Addario J74's. If you've been using those,or a similar gauge of string,then the logical move would be to the heavier J75 set. Before you do go up a gauge,try a slightly higher action first with the strings that you have on,if it works,you've saved some cash,if it doesn't,then the heavier strings might do the trick,
Ivan

[Michael Bridges]

Never could figure WHY you'd want to leave Castle Anthrax!

Although master players with instruments finely crafted and immaculately set up can come closer than us mortals, your quest for equivalency will be about as fruitful as searching for the Holy Chalice. However, as in some of the myths, the searching is a gainful practice even if you never find perfection.

Of course I have been stuck at Castle Anthrax for some time and can't seem to get any further in my quest!