Slide mandolin

[Peter Mix]

An acoustic instrument can do much the same thing. Slide mandolin requires lots of volume and sustain, so feedback becomes a challenge, but it's worth the effort.

[chuck3]

Here's a little snippet in A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqd7X...ature=youtu.be

Nice!

[mandroid]

Hmm. the blue link is DNF .. Seems Peter's web site went down, wonder if the site lease went ..

[mandopops]

Nicely done Peter,
I give you credit for staying with it. I fool w/ slide time to time, but I don't stay with it enough to develop a "thing".

I love the EM 200, in fact I got mine from you some years back. It's just an outstanding Electric Mandolin. It's the King of Beasts.

Talking about different sounds out of it, last week I was jamming at a Blues club & this Guitar player said he thought the Mandolin was sounding like a Fender Rhodes Piano when I was comping. Wow, that was a new one for me.

Jim, you said you have an Ebony Bridge for yours? What is it? Gives off a different sound?

Joe

[TheBlindBard]

Hello, all
I have tried slide playing on the mandolin, but find it kind of confusing and difficult. Not really sure what people mean whhen they say they fret notes and still use the slide.
I like the sound of it when played propperly, just can't figure it out myself :D

[chuck3]

I can't speak for others, but I was working on it tonight. Let's say you're playing "Born Under a Bad Sign" in G. There are lots of bass and also treble blues notes you can play fretting normally with fingers 1-3. But if you've got a slide on your pinky (a/k/a 4, I believe), you can hit the high notes with the slide, then revert back to fretting on the run. That's just an example, and not meant to be anything more. I don't find it hard to mix the fretting with the slide: I just need to find the right slide. I don't think the Dunlop 220 is ideal for mandolin. Peter Mix suggested some others and I think I'll try them.

[chuck3]

Niles H's 2-slide system. Slides are rounded/closed on the ends so the tip can be used to slide on a single course without hitting adjacent courses. Eliminates both the need for retuning to an open chord and the out-of-tune pairs when slanting a conventional slide.

Is there a clip? Maybe I missed it.

[Michael Bridges]

The glass Coricidin bottle that was given to me in 1970 for playing slide guitar still sits on my desk.
Ah, a follower of the Slide techniques of Brother Duane! It was a sad day for my former guitarist when Coricidan started coming in PLASTIC bottles.
Guys, the slide mando is interesting. Some very nice playing, I'm gonna keep on watching this.

[Ron McMillan]

Peter, does this by any chance mean that there is an electric carbon-fiber Mix in the production pipeline? With the huge interest that the electric Fender attracted recently, I'm pretty sure there would be quite a bit of interest in an electric Mix.

ron

[Bertram Henze]

Niles H's 2-slide system.

Are those thimbles?

[Peter Mix]

Peter, does this by any chance mean that there is an electric carbon-fiber Mix in the production pipeline? With the huge interest that the electric Fender attracted recently, I'm pretty sure there would be quite a bit of interest in an electric Mix.

ron

Hi Ron,

Yes, I am working now on a solid-body carbon fiber F5. It'll be some time before it emerges for the world to see, but I'm quite jazzed about it. I'm looking into electronics as we write, so if anyone has a recommendation for a particularly wonderful pickup, do let me know! I think it's going to be a peach of an instrument!

[mandocrucian]

Sorry, just a photo.

Are those thimbles?

No, that would be far too lightweight. Those were the heaviest cap nuts I could find. Ground off 3 of the hex points on outside for continuous 'roundness' on the string contact side. Had to grind out the threads to enlarge the holes for my fingers.

I can cover two adjacent courses with the side of one slide. But with two, I can "float" most doublestops..... (frets low - high) 5-3, 5-2, 5-1, 2-4, etc. or chords (3-3-5, 5-3-3, 3-5-5, 4-5-5, etc) or eliminate the sound of jumping larger intervals. So you can finger (with slides) with the 1st and 3rd fingers, and you can play fretting the notes with the other 2 fingers, or use a combination of slide and fretting. I can even split strings (on an 8-string mando) using the tip of the slide!

This approach was arrived at by thinking about the sonic function rather than trying to restrict myself to the "normal" technology of the 2" tube slide. (Analogy: ) The question is no longer "How can I do more complex things with a hammer and nail?" but tnow is about the task of "how to attach two pieces of lumber together". When/once you shift your attention to the latter (the underlying goal), you are free to consider using screws, or tenons/mortises, pegging, glue etc.

Niles H

[Tom Haywood]

Thanks, Niles. I'm gonna try the slide on the bouzouki today. The action is pretty high, the volume and sustain should be just right. I saw Derek Trucks play a concert in Macon, Ga. with Greg Allman's band when Derek was a young teenager. He used a glass slide that night and totally nailed Duane's sound. Gregg's guitarist played all the slide stuff perfectly using just his fingers. Amazing. The only other person I've seen who can channel Duane's sound is a fellow in Atlanta who uses a heavy brass slide.

[chuck3]

Those were the heaviest cap nuts I could find. Ground off 3 of the hex points on outside for continuous 'roundness' on the string contact side. Had to grind out the threads to enlarge the holes for my fingers.

I can cover two adjacent courses with the side of one slide. But with two, I can "float" most doublestops..... (frets low - high) 5-3, 5-2, 5-1, 2-4, etc. or chords (3-3-5, 5-3-3, 3-5-5, 4-5-5, etc) or eliminate the sound of jumping larger intervals. So you can finger (with slides) with the 1st and 3rd fingers, and you can play fretting the notes with the other 2 fingers, or use a combination of slide and fretting. I can even split strings (on an 8-string mando) using the tip of the slide!

whoa ... I am in awe of that! After experimenting with my Dunlop 220 slide since first reading this thread, I get why you'd split the slide. Unlike slide on guitar (which is more conveniently tuned for slide), on mando I find myself jumping around a lot and the split system would solve that problem. As would re-tuning, but I'm not there yet.

The 220 is not a very good slide for mando IMO. I think it's too long at 60 mm (which is 2.36 inches I believe). I am going to scout around for a shorter one.

[lenf12]

Hi Peter,

What is your signal chain; devices and amplifier? This curious mind wants to know. TIA

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Londy]

so do you have any tips to help a poor sap like me to try an play slide?

[Peter Mix]

I'm running straight into a Fender Pro 900 amp with no effects aside from a little bit of reverb. The only advice I can give is to be very patient and play endlessly. If you are able to boost your volume, you will find it easier to get the voice you want. Sustain is a very big part of the picture, too. The more sustain, the better!

For me, the single factor that made the most difference was in trying the heaviest slide I had on hand. Fret noise can be vexing, but you absolutely CAN defeat fret-noise even with a heavy slide. My action is extremely low, so low in fact that I cannot see the fret-ends and have to use a Sharpie to highlight them. I know this sounds like criminal behavior, but rest assured that the marks wear off quickly. No harm, no foul!

Oh, let me not forget INTENTION! It is way too easy to play out of tune simply due to the short-scale nature of our little 8-stringed pals. I make a point of INTENDING to play in tune and INTENDING to be completely accurate when the slide's in motion. You can hear it, I'm sure, when my attention wanders even slightly.

This may seem obvious, but I do find that clarity of intention is a big part of playing slide on mandolin. I want the biggest, sweetest, most evocative sound I can get. Intention is hugely important!

[chuck3]

OK, so I've ordered from Elderly the small Acousta-Glide that Peter mentioned and also a Dunlop Brass Knuckle (great name) which at 1.1"/28 mm will give a shorter option which I feel I may need.

I've gone from "MAS" to "SAS" (Slide Acquisition Syndrome) and I can tell you this - it's much cheaper than MAS!

[Paul Kotapish]

Very nice, indeed, Peter. Lovely tone, great touch, and a sweet melody. Reminds me of something Ry Cooder or David Lindley might have done, which is about as strong a compliment as I've got.

Keep 'em coming.

[Eddie Sheehy]

At the Radim Zenkl class he gave out pieces of PVC pipe to practice with... Got me started... now I have a glass bottleneck I bought on EBAY. Radim favored the heavier brass slide with the wider end.

[lenf12]

Hi again Peter,

I see reviews for the Fender Deluxe 900 but not for a Pro 900. The Deluxe 900 (if that's what you meant) looks like a serious amp with 90 watts into a 12" Celestion speaker and lots of DSP effects. I have to admit to being torn between solid state amps with built in effects and tube amps with external stomp boxes. I guess if it gives you the sustain and volume you need for achieving the sound you hear in your head, it shouldn't really matter.

Your approach seems a bit counterintuitive to me with your use of a "the heaviest slide" and "extremely low action". I would have guessed that a heavy slide would require higher action OR low action would require a very light slide. How long did it take you to develop a light touch with the heavy slide? TIA

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Peter Mix]

Hi Len,

I agree that low action with a heavy slide seems counterintuitive, but it works! It is very difficult to describe as anything other than a magnetic attraction between slide and strings, but when you feel it, it's unmistakeable. It took quite some time to dial in and thank goodness my bandmates are very patient.

I'll take a closer look at my amp tonight , but I'm pretty sure it's a Pro 900. One of my bandmates has a very similar amp that I love the sound of and it has the best built-in tuner I've found. You know how fussy I am about tuners, Len - nothing better than a tuning fork!- and this one is the best yet.

Paul, I'm humbled to be in the same paragraph with Ry Cooder and David Lindley. They are my go-to slide players.

[lenf12]

Hi Peter,

Well, nothing better than a tuning fork AND a good set of ears. When I listen to some old (pre-digital tuner era) Providence Mandolin Orchestra recordings, I wince in pain. I like your magnetic attraction analogy. It does seem appropos. I'll have to try out a heavy brass slide but I'm not sure if I have the endurance/patience to get the touch. I still struggle somewhat with my light weight glass slide. Great thread BTW!!

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Peter Mix]

[I][QUOTE=lenf12;1200409]Hi again Peter,

[I]I see reviews for the Fender Deluxe 900 but not for a Pro 900. The Deluxe 900 (if that's what you meant) looks like a serious amp with 90 watts into a 12" Celestion speaker and lots of DSP effects. I have to admit to being torn between solid state amps with built in effects and tube amps with external stomp boxes. I guess if it gives you the sustain and volume you need for achieving the sound you hear in your head, it shouldn't really matter.
Your approach seems a bit counterintuitive to me with your use of a "the heaviest slide" and "extremely low action". I would have guessed that a heavy slide would require higher action OR low action would require a very light slide. How long did it take you to develop a light touch with the heavy slide? TIA
Len B.
Clearwater, FL

You're right, Len, it is a Deluxe 900 and it's a great amp. The EM200 sounds so good through it.I generally run the carbon fiber mandolins through the PA and use a 7-band EQ to eliminate feedback. I'd like to try a Rane AP13 which Jimmy Gaudreau used with the fabulous Chesapeake. His mando-tone is exquisite.

[TheBlindBard]

Hello, all
I think my confusion was cleared up, but, just to clarify: when playing slide mandolin, the slide isn't used constantly, but to accent certain notes-give that slide sound we all love during certain parts?
like, in playing a blues scale, you could use the slide when picking out a tune or doing improv to give you that slide sound, or vibrato?