Monroe tunes

[mandopops]

Back to Lonesome Moonlight, I think of it as shifting tonalities between the Major it's relative Minor, F/dm. I'm sure Bill would agree, knowing, as he did, that the 6th degree of the scale is the note for the relative minor. Or would he say, "That relative minor is no part of nuthin'"?

[TonyP]

There are quite a few of BigMon's breaks tabbed out on mandozine. But I swear, just like some of the others on here have said, talk about a whoppin'. I'm still working on Letter to My Darling which is one of my all time favorite breaks of his, and it's all right there in black and white with the tab and notation.

Some folks don't need to get it exactly like he did it, but I do. And sometimes it just seems impossible. I learned down up picking first, and so things that you have to do consecutive down strokes just fry my brain. And without those things the feel of the break is just not right. And it's more about feel than technicality IMHO.

Good luck, and if you get all his stuff down, more power to you.

[AlanN]

Yeah, LMW is almost too sophisticated (or something) for Bill to have penned it. Legend has it that Richard Greene came up with the B part. One of those mid-60's bus tapes floating around has a part of this tune, you can hear the nascent thing happening to it.

[ralph johansson]

Yeah, LMW is almost too sophisticated (or something) for Bill to have penned it. Legend has it that Richard Greene came up with the B part. One of those mid-60's bus tapes floating around has a part of this tune, you can hear the nascent thing happening to it.

There's a live recording of MOnroe and Doc Watson doing this tune, in 1964 I believe. The bridge sounds confused in this version so it's quite conceivable that someone helped him clean it up.

[ralph johansson]

There are quite a few of BigMon's breaks tabbed out on mandozine. But I swear, just like some of the others on here have said, talk about a whoppin'. I'm still working on Letter to My Darling which is one of my all time favorite breaks of his, and it's all right there in black and white with the tab and notation.

Some folks don't need to get it exactly like he did it, but I do. And sometimes it just seems impossible. I learned down up picking first, and so things that you have to do consecutive down strokes just fry my brain. And without those things the feel of the break is just not right. And it's more about feel than technicality IMHO.

Good luck, and if you get all his stuff down, more power to you.

Among those folks I think you could include Monroe himself, i.e., I don't believe he played that solo the same way each time.
Personally, I never felt the desire to copy anyone else's solos, I just let them inspire me. All I learned of Monroe's blues language is in the first four bars of BG Part 1. And, yes, I did transcribe Rawhide - I heard a lot of notes that weren't really there, because I needed them.

[mandotool]

Here's the earliest of the motion pictures of Monroe ..(that i know of)... it may help to shed some light on this thread..



Still think you can tick Monroe off your list in a winter?
How about ..just the into to Roanoke this winter...
Now..That would put you in some rarefied company...

[mandotool]

correction..here's the earliest Monroe film..."A Voice From On High"....looks to be very close in age to Roanoke..1955
Image quality is amazing..

[JeffD]

Twin unison fiddles. Now that is sweeeeeeeeet.

[Perry]

Yeah, LMW is almost too sophisticated (or something) for Bill to have penned it. Legend has it that Richard Greene came up with the B part. One of those mid-60's bus tapes floating around has a part of this tune, you can hear the nascent thing happening to it.

Mike Compton plays a version of Lonesome Moonlight Waltz much different then Kenny Baker's version. The way he plays it is closer to Monroe's original intention (or maybe as per the bus tape) Regardless it is very haunting...very modal. Sounds great in a solo context the way Mike does it. The version doesn't have all those fancy chord changes in the B section but the B section melody is still pretty much there.

[DPrager]

Up tempo Monroe in D????

Bluegrass Stomp...of course!!

[Timbofood]

Why am I going completely blank on the fiddle players on Roanoke?
I want to have a band with multiple fiddle players once in my life even for only a night!
WSM doing Scotland with three fiddles has been a serious favorite from the first time I heard it!
Tom, help me out here, please?
Actually anybody, I am making myself crazy about it!
I'm loozin mah mahnd!

[JeffD]

Twin fiddles is a wonderful sound. It's what drew me to Bob Wills music.

[mandolirius]

Why am I going completely blank on the fiddle players on Roanoke?
I want to have a band with multiple fiddle players once in my life even for only a night!
WSM doing Scotland with three fiddles has been a serious favorite from the first time I heard it!
Tom, help me out here, please?
Actually anybody, I am making myself crazy about it!
I'm loozin mah mahnd!

Bobby Hicks and Charlie Cline.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From TonyP - "Some folks don't need to get it exactly like he did it, but I do...". Same here Tony. I'm not a 'Monroe stylist',my playing leans much more towards the playing of John Reischman / Herschel Sizemore - but - if i'm going to learn a Bill Monroe tune or one of his intros. or breaks,i do like to get it just as Bill did it. I've recently re-visited 'Old Ebeneezer Scrooge' a tune i only learned of last year thanks to another Cafe member AlanN (who shall remain nameless).I got the bare bones of the tune down fairly quickly,but then, when you go back & listen with a more educated ear,you hear all the 'other' little bits & pieces going on that you didn't catch onto before. For me,i simply have to re-learn the tune incorporating those bits & pieces. To me,Bill Monroe was & still is the Bluegrass mandolin genius,& if i'm going to learn one of his tunes,as i said previously,i have to play it (or as close as i can),as Bill did,out of respect really.
Having said all that,there's absolutely nothing wrong with playing your own intro. / break 'whatever' to a Bill Monroe tune '' in the style of '' Bill Monroe,but it's nice to be able to play the original as well.
From JeffD - "Twin fiddles is a wonderful sound.." And how !!. I bought the Bill Monroe LP 'Bluegrass Instrumentals' back in '66 (i think). The first track is 'Stoney Lonesome' & the sound of the twin fiddles knocked my socks of - it still does. One other tune featuring twin fiddles that has become a classic is 'Dixie Hoedown' done by Jim & Jesse McReynolds. The sound of twin fiddles is one of the most awesome sounds in Bluegrass music (IMHO),
Ivan
http://youtu.be/MZX-igXu_6g - Stoney Lonesome - Bill Monroe & the Bluegrass Boys - Charlie Smith & Bobby Hicks on fiddle.

[almeriastrings]

Bill Monroe did a very different version of 'Old Ebeneezer Scrooge' with Jimmy Campbell. Really quite different. So... lots to work on as always.

http://www.redclayrecords.com/Piecesoftime.htm

Chilly Winds of Shannon is a good one...and Lonesome Old Farmer.

[Phil Goodson]

oops, too late.

[Timbofood]

Thanks Mandolirious, I could not think of Charlie Cline, for some reason! I can get a good nights rest now, it was making me crazy!
OK, here's a Monroe trivia question..... A case of used flat picks to the winner!
What instrumental did Bill put his glasses on to play late in his days?
It's the only one I had ever seen him actually stop and put them on for, then take them off after he did the tune. He did it every time I saw him play it for about six years!

When I have a case of used picks I will send them!

[TonyP]

Ivan, I was totally in the Dawg/Bush/JR school. Coming from jazz guitar and hearing Dawgmusic and then on to NewGrass, it was all my ear could handle at first. Bill Monroe was just to "authentic" for my ear then.

But then when Dawg did the Bluegrass Reunion album and totally channeled Monroe that 'bout made my head explode. Along about that time I discovered Peter Rowan's "The First Whippoorwill" album, where Sam Bush did nothing but straight Monroe, and that was all she wrote.

For a long time I was a "stylist"(great way to put it) and then I just had to get serious about it. Not just going for inspiration, but doing the hard work of playing it exactly like that version of the recording. And yes, just like any good jazz cat, Monroe hardly ever played the same thing twice. But I think he could have, just just didn't. And like you said, it's those little twists and turns that just take me forever. But those leave an imprint that's not just a lick. It's jumbled up the stuff that just comes out when in a jam where I'm in over my head and don't have time to think about what I'm doing. Just one of those things that come out like somebody else had control of my hands for a second. I didn't get that when I was being casual about getting that stuff internalized.

I'm very in awe of folks who can just blast through the trad. Monroe breaks note for note. But what's weird is almost nobody at the bluegrass jams I've gone to know the really hard core stuff. Like I can't get anybody to play Evening Prayer Blues. And that's basically one chord, but it's Monroe twisty and just stops a jam cold like a dog shakin' off water. Seems a lonely pursuit sometimes, but I guess you just have to chase your obsession.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Tony - In a 'jam session',many times i've felt that the regular, well know jam along tunes / songs that almost all folk know are the ones that get played. The 'others' ie. the hard core stuff that you mean, requires a bunch of 'hardcore' enthusiasts to even think of playing them. I suppose that in a jam session,the most important thing for people is to be able to join in & many times that means playing the songs / tunes that are more accessible to the different levels of expertise of the 'jammers'. I've been involved in UK Bluegrass for over 50 years & at the festivals that i've attended,jam sessions rarely get out of the almost 'kindergarten' level of playing mainly for that reason. There are some terrific pickers over here in the UK,but i've never heard any of the 'classic' tunes such as Rebecca / Amandalina / Rawhide / EMD & hosts of other tunes being played. I've often wondered if,in a jam session context, this would be regarded as 'showing off' & pickers simply don't do it. I'm willing to join in most things,but i do prefer to play with players at my own level,who may be a bit more serious about doing the classic songs / tunes. Going back many years,i learned most of Earl Scruggs' banjo intros. & solos to the most famous Flatt & Scruggs songs & honestly,i've never played one of them in a jam session,because those old songs get neglected for ''the next new thing'' very often. Currently,at UK festivals,as far as mandolin players go,i'm far more likely to hear a player attempting to play a Chris Thile tune than i am to hear one playing
'Rebecca' - it's just the way things seem to go,we call it fashion !,
Ivan

[sachmo63]

For all things Monroe join the "Monroe Mandolin Appreciation Society" on Facebook. There's a lot of invite on big mons work.

[almeriastrings]

If it was anywhere else but Facebook....

[Timbofood]

Ivan, if you're ever in Kalamazoo, we must make some music! It could be a very interesting evening at the Garage Mahal with a few of the members, who have visited in the last several years. If they were all to arrive on the same night, bluegrass old style and some newer things too, it's always a good time!

[AlanN]

If it was anywhere else but Facebook....

Too wise.

Funny how for being the FOB, many of Monroe's tunes just stop pickers dead in their tracks. The straightforward ones, np - Big Mon, Lochwood, Southern Flavor, etc. But you throw in some of the slightly off-kilter numbers, messes the people right up - EPB, OES, etc. Even early numbers like Tennessee Blues, peoople just can't get right, especially the rhythm section.

I guess it keeps the riff-raff out.

[lowtone2]

Tennessee Blues-just a standard, everyday, 17 bar blues.

[mandopops]

As I read thru the comments, on one hand some say Monroe never played anything the same way twice paired up with "trying" to play things as exactly as Monroe did. I am not a Monroe devotee, but it seems the way to play like Monroe is NOT to play it like Monroe. Do it your way.

There developed around Charlie Parker , when he was hitting, players who wanted to play like Bird so much they had to be told, even by Bird himself, to stop & do their own thing. Find your own sound.

Study, learn, & "steal" then find your own voice. No disrespect in that.