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Thread: The Slow Air

  1. #26
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Sheehy View Post
    Roisin Dubh... On a Baritone Resonator Mandola

    and Crested Hens.
    They're two great tunes - i listened to the hens first and was not too surprised to find that it was of French composition but the Roisin Dubh!

    Well done sir - that caught my breath.

  2. #27
    Registered User John Kelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Had a listen to your Soundcloud tunes, Monica. You play with feeling and it is interesting to hear the air totally unaccompanied. This is where the sustain of a longer scaled instrument comes into its own, I think. Love the Waldzither sound - it really suits the tune.
    I posted a version of MacDonald of Keppoch some time back and cheated in a different way - I added in a synthed cello to my mandolin sounds. Here it is:


  3. #28
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Thanks John. I've got a long way to go, but at least I'm entertained, meanwhile! Great idea about the cello -- when Marty gets our newly acquired cello back together, maybe we can do something similar!

  4. #29
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Quote Originally Posted by MonicaJacobson View Post
    I've actually started playing around with a Waldzither and I have great hopes for the extra string and the longer sustain once I get better at playing it.

    With this one, I was trying to do a more Andy Irvine continuous flow of play. Not like Andy Irvine, don't mistake me, just with his style in mind. Heh.
    Very good approach. Reminds me of “Aut tace aut loquere meliora silencio” (“I will speak only when the words outperform silence”).
    Like a speaker should not fill the gaps between sentences with "Ehrrr...", "Like" and other such trash, a player should fill the silence with interesting things (Andy's recipe, and well interpreted here).

    If we must fill the silence at all, that is. I have noticed that a speaker's silent pause of a few seconds can serve three purposes:
    - to give him time to think of what to say next
    - to give his audience time to digest what he just said
    - to increase his audience's expectant attention (very important but often underestimated).
    I wonder if short-sustain instruments could exploit those effects, too?
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  5. #30
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    In my opinion the use of silence and pauses could be advantageous - it can add emphasis and help push or imply movement forward, but, as with public speaking, the player would have to really be confident with their use.

    Rather than trying to fill the space, or leaving last notes to dwindle for want of sustain, the melodic phrasing can be re-emphasized, bracketed, by pauses - or energised by coming in a little ahead of the beat... i'm not sure - really i'm just thinking out in text here.

    In a way, i think the use of pauses can help to draw out the mandolin's strengths - i am not too sure on this but would such techniques, the use of pauses and silences be common in classical mandolin composition?

  6. #31
    Registered User DougC's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Quote Originally Posted by M.Marmot View Post
    In my opinion the use of silence and pauses could be advantageous - it can add emphasis and help push or imply movement forward, but, as with public speaking, the player would have to really be confident with their use.

    Rather than trying to fill the space, or leaving last notes to dwindle for want of sustain, the melodic phrasing can be re-emphasized, bracketed, by pauses - or energised by coming in a little ahead of the beat... i'm not sure - really i'm just thinking out in text here.

    In a way, i think the use of pauses can help to draw out the mandolin's strengths - i am not too sure on this but would such techniques, the use of pauses and silences be common in classical mandolin composition?
    This technique is done in Baroque music. It works very well for harpsichord which has no sustain either. Harpsichord music was, and is full of long trills and ornaments that 'fill in' the longer notes. The other reason is that acoustic music in echo -y churches needs a pause between notes so the sound does not turn into 'mush'.
    Mandolin can take advantage of the same properties and even taylor them to the sonic properties of mandolins.
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  8. #32
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Quote Originally Posted by DougC View Post
    This technique is done in Baroque music. It works very well for harpsichord which has no sustain either. Harpsichord music was, and is full of long trills and ornaments that 'fill in' the longer notes. The other reason is that acoustic music in echo -y churches needs a pause between notes so the sound does not turn into 'mush'.
    Mandolin can take advantage of the same properties and even taylor them to the sonic properties of mandolins.
    Aha! Thats one of those things that make so much sense yet i never thought of it - of course a lot of those pieces would have been composed with a specific space in mind - and likewise a lot of churches were built to maximise their acoustic properties - its pretty neat to think of these classical composers factoring in the performance space into their compositions.

  9. #33
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Thank you, Bertram. I agree, and I think celtic music could be played a lot like David Grisman and Tony Rice play Mill Valley Waltz. Some tremolo, a lot of feeling, hammer-ons and slides, and an appealing simplicity. Marty did a solo recording of it, and I don't really miss the accompaniment, and it's definitely a slow tune. Not Celtic, of course, but it seems like you could apply some of the style to most slow celtic tunes.

    It makes me realize how important good tone is, and how difficult it is to achieve it.

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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Quote Originally Posted by MonicaJacobson View Post
    Thank you, Bertram. I agree, and I think celtic music could be played a lot like David Grisman and Tony Rice play Mill Valley Waltz. Some tremolo, a lot of feeling, hammer-ons and slides, and an appealing simplicity. Marty did a solo recording of it, and I don't really miss the accompaniment, and it's definitely a slow tune. Not Celtic, of course, but it seems like you could apply some of the style to most slow celtic tunes.

    It makes me realize how important good tone is, and how difficult it is to achieve it.
    Marty does a real nice job there and he captures the bluegrass phrasing well. Irish music has it's own 'accent' (as I like to call it). And like language, music has it's own way of sounding 'right'. If you are learning a language, sounding fluent takes some close study and good listening.
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  13. #35
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Quote Originally Posted by MonicaJacobson View Post
    It makes me realize how important good tone is, and how difficult it is to achieve it.
    In a setting like that, indeed. Using the metaphor of speaking again: if you allow for silence between the sentences, the sentences had better have something important to say.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

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  15. #36

    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Of course The Dubliners recorded Roisin Dubh on 2 mandolins over 40 years ago, check it out on youtube, it's sublime.

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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Quote Originally Posted by DougC View Post
    Irish music has it's own 'accent' (as I like to call it).
    ... and when played in a pub setting it often has a pronounced slur

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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Very nice playing, Monica. I think slow airs work very well on the mandolin, despite the relatively short sustain of the instrument. Tremolo is a good technique for playing longer notes, but I'm not one who insists on it for longer notes always. I think a single note, dying away, can be very effective. I often will play a tune using single notes the first time through, then maybe use some tremolo the second time through, but maybe not even on all the longer notes. It's an expressive tool, and you can use it to your own discretion. Tremolo does take a bit of practice to get it to be good, but it shouldn't be too hard to get there. Certain styles of music, though, like some of the Italian music I've heard for mandolin, seem to use it quite extensively.

    Jack

  18. #39
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Thank you, Jack. I guess I should get to work on my tremolo! But I agree -- I like it best when it's used conservatively.

    Speaking of Italian sounding tremolo... I saw this somewhere else on the Cafe a month or so ago. You might have already seen it.


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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    I didn't really expect to see that clip in this thread, but the Melonious Quartet are - to my mind anyway - one of the greatest groups in the world.

    Here is quite an old interview with their leader Patrick Vaillant. He has some very interesting observations on mandolins and music in general, plus some comments about Provencal and Occitaine cultures. Worth reading.

    Here is a quote which gives you an idea what he's trying to do.

    " I felt when I started to play the mandolin that I had to create a way that was different from the existing ones : the mandolin I wanted to play was neither classical nor american. It was a third type mandolin, closer to my state of mind and musical culture... An alternative in many aspects : another technique, another style, another repertory, another scope of experience, another mood..."

    http://www.mandozine.com/resources/CGOW/vaillant.php
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  21. #41
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    The difficult part is whose turn it is to bang on the table, apparently...
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    The difficult part is whose turn it is to bang on the table, apparently...
    If you think thats difficult part just wait until you try and find whose turn it is to buy the next round of drinks!

  23. #43
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Its funny that the Meloniousos have been posted here - for the last while i have been listening to Fado music as i thought that i could hear something in the way the portugese guitar is used to support songs that could prove useful to a few of the threads current in this section.

    I'd hazard a guess that M. Vaillant might have dipped into that well to in his quest to fashion a more European mandolin sound.

  24. #44
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    I said earlier that a mandolin ensemble would be a great sound for Irish music. The Melonious quartet is just the sound I was thinking of. Now only if they would play Irish airs! I remember Peter O. had a mandolin group. I wonder if they did some Irish stuff? Any other examples out there?
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  25. #45
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Right, like the "Modern Mandolin Quartet" video you posted in "The State of Irish Traditional Playing" thread. That was some of the most impressive playing I've heard for a long time. I've never participated in an Irish session, and I suppose people go, not for the musicality as much (not that it's not good music), but for the tunes and the energy of playing together. It seems like a small group is definitely the way to go if you're interested in having a sound that is worth recording, at least.

    It seems like you could treat it almost like vocal parts and do three part harmony with mandolins.

  26. #46
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Quote Originally Posted by MonicaJacobson View Post
    Right, like the "Modern Mandolin Quartet" video you posted in "The State of Irish Traditional Playing" thread. That was some of the most impressive playing I've heard for a long time. I've never participated in an Irish session, and I suppose people go, not for the musicality as much (not that it's not good music), but for the tunes and the energy of playing together. It seems like a small group is definitely the way to go if you're interested in having a sound that is worth recording, at least.

    It seems like you could treat it almost like vocal parts and do three part harmony with mandolins.
    Here lies the crux of the matter. Irish music, traditional Irish sessiun tunes music, does not have harmony in the usual sense like vocal music as you said. Musicians of all sorts have had huge disagreements about how to add to the melody. My personal theory is that any addition to the melody should be similar to what an Irish pipe music would have. Drones, odd accents, odd slides in pitch. There is a very specific regimen if you think on it. The good news is that we in the mandolin family can mimic most of it.


    Just found this old video and had to share it. Not Irish but look what sounds they pull from the instruments!

    Last edited by DougC; Sep-06-2013 at 8:05pm.
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    Default Re: The Slow Air

    Great clips, loved them both! They really show the amazing versatility of the mandolin.

    Jack

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    Default Re: The Slow Air





    Taímse Im’ Chodhladh



    http://thesession.org/tunes/6944

  29. #49
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    Default Re: The Slow Air



    An Paistín Fionn

    http://thesession.org/tunes/2387



    How odd... but there be ideas there

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    Default Re: The Slow Air



    An Raibh Tú Ag An GCarraig



    http://thesession.org/tunes/9695
    Last edited by M.Marmot; Sep-12-2013 at 4:01am. Reason: link

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