Same Fret, Adjacent String

[joshua.mccall]

Okay, this is seriously giving me some trouble. I'm trying to learn a song, but it requires two sixteenth notes to be played one-after-the-other: the G on the fifth fret of the D string, followed by the D on the fifth fret of the A string.

I cannot for the life of me bar the fifth fret in order to play the notes without muting one of them, how do you guys get around this? I've tried cramming my pinky onto the same fret, but it just doesn't fit without creating loads of buzz or muting the string entirely, plus it's uncomfortable because the nail of my pinky digs into the bottom of my ring finger.

Is there an analogue to the "Rolling" technique guitar players use? It seems harder to do on a mandolin due to the increased string tension.

Any help would be great. I know there was a topic on this before, but it's either lost or deleted as I can't seem to find it.

[OldSausage]

Well, any of the approaches you've outlined will work - just pick the one that you feel the most comfortable with, and practice it for about 4 months and you'll get it no problem. Another possible issue may be that your action is too high, possibly at the nut. If it's that hard to fret the strings, it could be the cause, so it might be worth looking into getting a good setup done - or doing it yourself if you have the skills. On the other hand, if you haven't been playing very long, you may just need to build up some muscle and dexterity to be able to do this, which again is just practice.

Make up some exercises or tunes where you have to do this in different locations on all of the strings. Become an expert on this technique and develop an approach that works for you.

[Pete Braccio]

How about sliding up just before those notes so you're in position to play them with your ring or middle finger? You could then slide back down to first position after you play these notes.

[Bertram Henze]

In cases like that, I always cheat on the music. Instead of two successive 16ths, I'd play one 8th doublestop (ring+middle).

[Tobin]

It's hard to say what's the best solution without knowing what notes/frets you have to play just before and just after these. That can make a big difference on how I'd approach it.

[fatt-dad]

are you learning, "The Maid Behind the Bar?" That tune works my patience for the same reason. I love playing it though and it's coming more naturally in time. I'd say rolling the fingertip is what's evolving. . .

f-d

[Bertram Henze]

Another way of cheating on 5ths jumps on fret #5 is to use the open string below, i.e. instead of D5-A5 you might try G0-A5. I have used that to considerably speed up The Glenbeigh Hornpipe from this version to this.

[Jim Garber]

What song is it? That might help and there might be an alternate way of playing it. You could also possibly play the two adjacent fretted notes with 3rd and 4th fingers (no barre).

[lxnx]

I've been having similar trouble trying to play The Banshee Reel, which has something like this at one point:

-0-3-2----

--2-2-2---

----------

----------

When I try and bar the last 2 notes, my first finger is a lot more in line with the strings, so barring doesn't seem to work like it would if the finger was at 90 degree angle to string strings.

Not sure if I should avoid barring that low down the neck?

[Bertram Henze]

I've been having similar trouble trying to play The Banshee Reel, which has something like this at one point:

-0-3-2----

--2-2-2---

----------

----------

When I try and bar the last 2 notes, my first finger is a lot more in line with the strings, so barring doesn't seem to work like it would if the finger was at 90 degree angle to string strings.

Not sure if I should avoid barring that low down the neck?

I think that's in the B part - I don't know what I do there - you tell me - but I have no problems at all.

[bratsche]

Okay, this is seriously giving me some trouble. I'm trying to learn a song, but it requires two sixteenth notes to be played one-after-the-other: the G on the fifth fret of the D string, followed by the D on the fifth fret of the A string.

I cannot for the life of me bar the fifth fret in order to play the notes without muting one of them, how do you guys get around this? I've tried cramming my pinky onto the same fret, but it just doesn't fit without creating loads of buzz or muting the string entirely, plus it's uncomfortable because the nail of my pinky digs into the bottom of my ring finger.

A bit hard to describe, but I would hit the first note (G) with the tip of my ring finger, and then quickly straighten out the end joint so that the D was subsequently hit by the finger pad. The finger stays in the same place, only its shape changes from being arched to more flattened as the note changes. Try repeatedly going back and forth between the two notes this way, and see if it's a workable solution for you.

*added later
Actually I just tried this with instrument in hand, and it may be easier to just flatten the finger joint to hit both notes with the pad rather than one with the fingertip. It is for me!

bratsche

[lxnx]

I think that's in the B part - I don't know what I do there - you tell me - but I have no problems at all.

Thanks for that, looks like maybe I just need to angle my hand a little differently and I might get it. Also, that second tune sounds great too, I'll be adding that to my list of things to learn.

[JeffD]

The B part to Julian Delaney has a similar moment. Just takes practice.

If the tune does not require lingering there but just passing through, I would be tempted to just roll up. It also takes practice, but seems a bit easier.

The problem with any of these things is that, at first, they take a moment to do, and that moment screws up all the rhythm and grace already developed in playing the rest of the tune. Getting the technique down is straight forward, getting into and out of the technique quickly, gracefully and still being effective, that is much harder, in my experience, and requires tons of practice.

[jmp]

For hitting those notes as you described in isolation I think you really have to build up your finger strength so that you can bar them cleanly. Alternatively for those strings using the 2nd finger on the D string and the 3rd finger on A string could be an option depending on finger size and neck width. However, as mentioned above the best fingering would also depend on what notes you are coming from and where you going to.

[EdHanrahan]

... using the 2nd finger on the D string and the 3rd finger on A string could be an option depending on finger size and neck width.

I think this is one of those cases where a radiused fretboard allows fretting fingers to squeeze in closer together than a similarly-spaced flat board would.

[JeffD]

I think this is one of those cases where a radiused fretboard allows fretting fingers to squeeze in closer together than a similarly-spaced flat board would.

It may help if fretting with two fingers, but it makes it harder with one finger.

I have to push a bit harder to get both strings without a buzz on a radiused fretboard than I do on a flat one. Easier to get one or the other course, but trickier to get both over the curve of the neck.

[joshua.mccall]

What song is it? That might help and there might be an alternate way of playing it. You could also possibly play the two adjacent fretted notes with 3rd and 4th fingers (no barre).

The song is Archie Menzie's Reel from Marilynn Mair's book "The Complete Mandolinist". So I think you're supposed to be able to play it on mandolin, so I don't like the idea of cheating on it as some have suggested.

[bratsche]

You do whatever you have to do to make it sound clean. Some may call it "cheating", but that's not the case. Cheating implies there's only one right way to do it, and there aren't really any absolutes involved here. Everyone's hands, muscles and brains are different.

bratsche

[Marty Jacobson]

Many tunes have this sort of thing going on... Maid Behind the Bar, Leather Britches, etc. I always roll my fingertip, as it is usually a jump up a fifth, not down a fifth. Fret the first note cleanly, then flatten out your finger to fret both at the same time. It's a lot easier than it is on violin, where you really need to hop from one string to the other. But it's still feasible to do that because of the lower string tension.