How to string Baritone Uke in GDAE

[FatBear]

I figgered if we kept this going long enough someone who knew what he was talking about would eventually chime in.

[zoukboy]

Since I play so many custom and/or "non-standard" instruments and use various tunings I learned to geek out on string data many years ago. And even with standard instruments and tunings I sometimes like to tweak the individual gauges in a set so they suit me.

I have not gone as far as David Lindley, though, who winds his own strings, but that would be cool to learn how to do...

[fox]

zoukboy , your info has been a great source of fun for me, I cant thank you enough to help solve the problem until GHS or someone makes some commercial sets...

Well I spent 4 hours today chopping and changing strings like nobody's business!
I started with a bag full of nylon ukulele & classical guitar strings but I still cant get a decent overall sound from either of my two baritones!

The problem I found is mainly due to the type of nylon, as the stiff, coated type, sounds complete different to the plain clear mono.
The low wound strings are easy enough but the plain strings just don't sound right.... ok for melody but try & strum & it sound awful.

I have managed to get a reasonable sound from GDAE using clear mono .28 .40 & Aquila .31w plus a classic guitar .46.(although the Aquila .26 is possibily better for the E)
The difference from a .28 clear mono, compared to GHS .28 is like chalk & cheese.
It makes you realise how much work has gone into producing the established brand strings
Anyway I will have another go tomorrow, might try a wired string for the A (GDAE)... happy holidays for me

[fox]

I have pretty much exhausted my locale music store range of strings now, the owner cant find a .50 nylon w string or a .21 plain.
I have also searched the UK market for them with no joy.... anyone know where I can but those sizes?

[zoukboy]

I have pretty much exhausted my locale music store range of strings now, the owner cant find a .50 nylon w string or a .21 plain.
I have also searched the UK market for them with no joy.... anyone know where I can but those sizes?

Strings and Beyond has them.

http://www.stringsandbeyond.com/dclgusistclb.html

[fox]

Thanks, I hope to find some in the UK.... but while you are hear could you please suggest a wired string for the A in GDAE.
I use wired A on my banjo & archtop, whether it would work on the uku I don't know?

[zoukboy]

Thanks, I hope to find some in the UK.... but while you are hear could you please suggest a wired string for the A in GDAE.
I use wired A on my banjo & archtop, whether it would work on the uku I don't know?

I would be wary of putting a steel string on there. What is it about the .021" nylon for that first string A4 that you don't like?

D'Addario makes composite trebles and "titanium" trebles for extra hard tension on classical guitar. That material might sound good on baritone uke.

[fox]

How about this one!.....
http://www.stringtensionpro.com/

[zoukboy]

How about this one!.....
http://www.stringtensionpro.com/

I checked that out the other day but it does't seem to do all gauges for a particular string type. To me, the bangzero one seems much easier to use.

[fox]

I have a new question!

What size nylon gauges do I need to power a 23" scale classical guitar ?

I have built a four string 3/4 size guitar with light weight fan bracing & a cedar top.
The only starting points I have are ... standard classical guitar strings based on a 25.5" scale, there does not seem to be much choice out there based on a 3/3 size & what there is seems the same as for the longer scale!!

So if I want to try GDAE, what can anyone suggest?

I think it might be something like G .44 D .34 A .36 E .30 but where can I get these sizes anyway?

[Eric Armstrong]

Since I play so many custom and/or "non-standard" instruments and use various tunings I learned to geek out on string data many years ago. And even with standard instruments and tunings I sometimes like to tweak the individual gauges in a set so they suit me.

I have not gone as far as David Lindley, though, who winds his own strings, but that would be cool to learn how to do...

Hey, Roger! Long time no listen.
I met you at Zoukfest in Missouri, lo these many ages ago. (If memory serves, you were "instrumental" in arranging it.) I met Chris Smith there as well, and Gerald Trimble gave the truly memorable and truly inspirational rendition of Shambo Shankara, interspersed with taksim by his group. It was 18 minutes of heaven, and I've never found anyone since who has done such a remarkable combination of Indian mantra and Arabic taksim.

Anyway, I wanted to thank the people on this thread for giving me a terrific new instrument to play. But that belongs in another message...
:__)

[Eric Armstrong]

Thanks in part to this thread (and research elsewhere) I now own an "Ukuzouki !"

Instrument: Baritone ukulele
Strings: D'Addario "Pro-Arte" EJ46 (hard tension) nylon strings

Re-string like this:
Guitar string-------------On the Baritone Uke / Octave mandolin
1 (Low E)--------G
2 (A)-------------D
3(D)-------------------Not used
4(G)--------------A
5(B)--------------E -- or just leave the Baritone E in place
6(High E) ----------Not used
Remember - Don't try to tune them up as high as a mandolin.

So far I'm loving this thing. It sounds great (to me at least)...

I'm loving it, too! It's a great sound, without as much string tension as a full-size octave mando, so it's
easier to play.

I got a Kala baritone uke for all of $140, and it sounds wonderful. Add the strings,
and the thing has tones that ring for at least a minute. Talk about sustain!

Chords are going to be a challenge, with the scale length, but less of a challenge
than they were on the Irish Bouzouki. If nothing else, I finally have a way to get
back the fiddle/mando tunes I used to know, while keeping the same scale length
as my long-neck tenor (on which chords are uber-easy).

So folks, I'm in heaven! Thanks a ton for this thread.

[Eric Armstrong]

I now own an "Ukuzouki !"

I do, too. Only I call mine a "Bouzouk-ulele !"

BTW:
I see Octave Mandolin strings on Amazon. Is there a reason that guitar strings were chosen over some set of OM strings?

[fox]

You have seen nylon octave mandolin strings for sale on Amazon?

[Eric Armstrong]

You have seen nylon octave mandolin strings for sale on Amazon?

Ah. Probably not. I didn't look closely enough!

[Eric Armstrong]

Plug for the bouzouk-ulele:

The baritone uke strung up in GDAE is turning out to be pretty darn close to perfect!
I played octave mandolin/Irish Bouzouki for a while.
I found the fret-stretches pretty unmanageable on the guitar-length scale--even with large hands and long fingers.
That, coupled with the steel strings and high tension (highest of the string instruments, I believe) made it hard to play.
The bouzouk-ulele has longer stretches than a mandolin, but I find them manageable--even for chords.
(But someone with smaller hands probably needs to find a setup for a concert-size (aka alto) ukulele.)
String tension is more than a ukulele, but I find that manageable as well--especially with nylon strings.
And then there is the sound! Deep, low notes like the ones you get on a guitar. And strings that ring forever.
I love it!

[kkmm]

I have done this type of GDAE tuning using guitar nylon strings on my tenor uke (17" scale length).
The choice of strings is very important for the tone, each string is designed to sound best at a certain tension and we need to follow this requirement. The string set below is suitable for "tuning in fifth"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aquila-31U-U...item58c25bdade

It is for a scale length of 15" and the tuning is CGDA. On a 17" scale length (2 frets longer), tuning the strings at proper tension would result in Bb/F/C/G. There are two choices: either tuning each string one full note higher to get CGDA or ... put a capo at fret#2 to get CGDA. Using a capo has advantage when playing in Bb or Gm keys.

I am not sure if this string set is long enough for baritone.

[Eric Armstrong]

The choice of strings is very important for the tone, each string is designed to sound best at a certain tension and we need to follow this requirement.

Having played with my baritone bouzouk-ulele for a while now, I still love the tone. And the frets are definitely more reachable than they were on my guitar-sized octave mando. However, they are just *barely* reachable. When fingering the 2nd, 4th, and 5th frets, the 7th is pretty easily reachable with my pinky. But when fingering 2nd, 3rd, and 5th, I find that I have to rotate my hand. (I keep the 5th in place, but lift the fingers on the 2nd and 3rd frets to get to the 7th with my pinky.)

So now I am planning to try restringing my original (now loaner) concert uke to GDAE. That should totally solve the stretch problem, and give me the wider fretboard that I just love, compared to the standard mandolin.

Does anyone have any suggestions on strings to use? Or warnings about the impossibility of it all?

[fox]

GDAE might be difficult on such a small instrument but 5th tuning (same chord shapes) in CGDA is very easy, you just buy the strings as linked by Kkmm.

[Eric Armstrong]

UPDATE:
I got a lead on a fellow who makes custom string sets: Olav (Chris) Hendrikson at Boston Catlines ("catlines" at aol dot com).
I was planning to try stringing my 15" concert Uke to GDAE, but he talked me out of it. The reason:
a) With octave mando tuning, the bottom string has to be so thick, it's hard to play and sounds muddy
(I'm betting it produces a lot of fret buzz, as well.)
b) With standard mando tuning, the high string is so thin that it breaks if you look at it.

Bottom line: There is no way to get good GDAE tuning at that scale length.
He said that the 17" scale is the shortest scale you could do in octave mando tuning.

So I checked, and found that it is also the longest scale length at which I can do "fiddle fingering", reaching the 7th fret with my pinky while still holding my index finger on the 2nd fret.

In other words, the 17" scale is PERFECT for what I want to do. So I am now the proud owner of a new Kamoa tenor uke ($260). And the strings are on the way. The only thing left is to check the sound.

The baritone uke with a 20" scale does sound pretty darn good. The middle strings sound like they're in the guitar range. The bottom string is very low--just a little muddy actually, with just a teeny bit of fret buzz--while the top string sounds just a bit "tinny". Those are just quibbles, though. I like the overall sound a lot. It's unique enough that I can hear myself while others are playing, without being so loud that I destroy a session when I'm off... (Right now, I'm in a mando class. When I stop playing, it's very obvious. The sound in the room has a depth and richness that goes away when I stop, leaving a bunch of thin-sounding mandolins (but of course, "richness of the sound" is what makes ensemble playing so special).

It will be interesting to see how the professionally-recommended strings sound on the tenor. I already know it's playable. So if it sounds as good as I hope, I'll have a winner! (The bottom strings will be wire wound. The top strings will be either Nylgut (enough friction so your finger doesn't slide off) or Carbon Fiber (slippery, but can be made much thinner, so it tends to sound brighter). He's doing the calculations today. If the Nylgut strings can be thin enough to work, he'll go with that. Otherwise, he'll go with the Carbon Fiber.

[Eric Armstrong]

YES YES YES!!

The Kamoa tenor uke projected really nicely in the job--better than instruments costing more, actually. And the 17" scale is VERY playable for Irish and Bluegrass tunes. (It's the longest scale I can really play those tunes on, actually.

Meanwhile the strings that Olav (Chris) sent me from Boston Catlines are spectacular for GDAE tuning. The top string is a carbon fiber--thin enough that maybe it should be called a "carbon filament"!. We worried that it might be too thin, and/or too slippery to keep the fingers in place. On the other hand, it could be made thin enough to produce a really good sound. So I ordered two E strings--that one, and a Nylgut for backup. Result: It too is very playable. So no worries on that score--no slipping, not so thin it hurts, and it sounds terrific. So I never got around to trying the backup E string. (I know how that sounds. It's a warm tone that I like on my tenor uke, but for the Bouzoukulele, I like the brighter high end the carbon fiber gives me.)

The A string is nylgut, and the two low strings are wire wound. And they sound fabulous! The sound is still reminiscent of a guitar's rich tones. (I play it more, just because I love hearing it!). And while it's not quite as deep as the baritone ukulele version, it also stays well shy of the "muddy" bottom end, while being even more playable!

So there you have it. Tenor ukulele makes the ideal vehicle for an octave mando, imho. (I've heard that a soprano uke works well in standard fiddle/mando tuning. A friend is planning to try that. I look forward to finding out how that experiment works.)

[David Kennedy]

I have my Baritone Uke tuned to GDAE using a set of linear tuned strings, with no wound strings, from the Southwest Ukulele and Guitar Company, www.southcoastukes.com.
They have a great selection of Ukulele strings and some really great information about strings as well. They have charts to show tension and what works well for all sizes and tunings of ukuleles.
The set I use are LL-NW Light Gauge Linear Set. I love my Baritone strung with these strings. But I see that they have a new set, LML-NW Light Medium Gauge which will give you slightly higher tension.
Cheers,
Dave

[David Kennedy]

I have my Baritone Uke tuned to GDAE using a set of linear tuned strings, with no wound strings, from the Southwest Ukulele and Guitar Company, www.southcoastukes.com.
They have a great selection of Ukulele strings and some really great information about strings as well. They have charts to show tension and what works well for all sizes and tunings of ukuleles.
The set I use are LL-NW Light Gauge Linear Set. I love my Baritone strung with these strings. But I see that they have a new set, LML-NW Light Medium Gauge which will give you slightly higher tension.
Cheers,
Dave

Hullo folks, my brain is now back from its holiday. It informs me that my baritone uke is tuned GCEA and not GDAE. With my brain on its annual leave, I had been seeking info on tuning my Tenor Guitar to GDAE and had successfully confused myself.
However the Southwest Uke Company may be able to help with strings for a GDAE tuning.
Bye for now, I'm just off to have a little lie down.
Cheers.

[fox]

After many months of intensive string testing I can honestly say that I have yet to find any combination that works really well!
Most testing has been done using my 1953 Harmony Baritone mahogany top & my newish Lani Cutaway, spruce top.

I have read & even heard some good results from you guys but I cant seem to match them on my instruments.

So my latest attempt has been to purchase two sets from South Coast Ukes... that works out at $5 a string delivered but I dread to think how much I have spent overall on nylons strings Only ordered them today so I will wait with baited breath for a good result.

[kkmm]

It's hard to find a good set of NYLON string to match a baritone for CDAE tuning. If you use steel strings instead, a matching set would be the one for a bouzouki around 20" scale length. You will have two set of strings, that's a bonus.