4 or 5 string jazz mando?

[BowenMando]

Hello all! I am considering the purchase of an electric/acoustic mandolin. I have the option of getting a 4 string or a 5 string. I have been playing for almost 4 years, so I am still a relative beginner, especially in jazz. Please comment.

[mrmando]

Which instruments are you considering?

Most 4- and 5-strings aren't what I'd consider "acoustic/electric," even if they're semi-hollow. They tend not to have much acoustic tone. Some of the higher-end instruments (Old Wave, Arrow Jazzbo, Austin Clark) might have enough acoustic tone to qualify.

Jazz players often want the 5th string when they go electric, since it gets them down into guitar range for chord comping.

[BowenMando]

Jazzbo- specifically for playing jazz, choro.

[mandroid]

well 1st fret on that low C string is B flat.

[mrmando]

well 1st fret on that low C string is B flat.

And if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce, they taste more like prunes than rhubarb does.

I think you mean D flat, Bob, but even then I'm not sure what your point is.

[Tom Wright]

For me it's not a question---easier to ignore the fifth string than to add one later, and it is an incentive to learn the low range.

The best archtop electric playing now is maybe Jason Anick.

The best acoustic mandolin jazz playing is Don Stiernberg.

Don sounds great amplified, using an old Baggs bridge on his Nugget---a very acoustic tone with good focus. If you want the "electric" tone of the standard electric-guitar magnetic pickup in a mandolin-tuned instrument with good acoustic tone, an option would be the Shadow pickup system.

With some EQ you could probably switch the Shadow from a more acoustic tone to a fatter electric one, since the design is a magnetic pickup. It is optimized for standard A-style archtop mandolins.

I have a fine acoustic/electric setup, but it is rather custom and not typical. I have a Buchanan flat top round-hole mandolin, and its hole is a perfect size for mounting a slender magnetic pickup. I use it as a temporary mount, but its effect on the acoustic tone is zero, so I could leave it in. The Shadow system also would preserve your acoustic tone, since it floats above the top.

In my case, I did not want an electric instrument to be only a "mandolin" tone---I wanted the range to include guitar richness and sustain, so I have solid body 5-string. It is more punchy than a guitar, but I can get smoother response easily by the right touch and the right EQ/tone adjustment. It would be a fine jazz instrument, but these days I like the 10-string sound, since it is rich and big naturally. I have been using it in a trio setting with bass and drums, and it fills the tonal spectrum nicely..

[Pete Martin]

Most 5 string makers make the fretboard about an inch longer, so there are bigger reaches.

For acoustic I play an 8 string (1924 A2) for Jazz. For electric, either 4 or 5 (Mann EM4 or EM5), depends on what I feel like playing that day.

[mandocrucian]

Save your money!

Instead, get a short scale (19" or 17") kid's-size electric solidbody guitar. String it up with 5 strings GDAEb (or GDAEa), but an octave lower. If 19" is too much of a stretch, capo it up to the second fret, or put an new nut there to shorten up the scale. You'll get better tone from the low string with 19" though. Once you've gone solid-body and single-string, the only difference between an "electric guitar" and an "electric mandolin" is how you tune it.

Don't respace the either nut or the bridge. Just don't put anything on where the low gtr E string would have been. Remove the individual saddle for that string, if that's how the bridge is set up, to keep it from rattling. The extra space on the bass side of the neck will let you do push bends on the low G string.



Niles H
(the b&w photo is from 1990)

[mrmando]

That's all right for rock'n'roll. But this is jazz. Gotta have that $5,000 instrument to put in the $500 car to drive 80 miles to earn $50.

[Mark Seale]

Hello all! I am considering the purchase of an electric/acoustic mandolin. I have the option of getting a 4 string or a 5 string. I have been playing for almost 4 years, so I am still a relative beginner, especially in jazz. Please comment.

What's the sound in your ear? The 5 string is incredibly versatile and gives you options in comping as well as the high mandolin range for soloing. Check out Paul Glasse on YouTube, I don't think anyone has a better electric mandolin sound (he's a pretty darn good picker too.) In Austin, you can hear him play with a quartet that is mandolin, bass, drums, and vocals. The mandolin gets a workout on comp and solo duty, it's a treat and really shows what a mandolin can do when masterfully handled.

[Shelby Eicher]

I don't care for the sound of the E string. I got my inspiration from Johnny Gimble and went for the mandola tuning. Check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMhCytbXcCs
Shelby

[Mark Seale]

Shelby does the E string sound too Tin(n)y ?

[Shelby Eicher]

Yeah, I always used the term plinky. Even when I hear Tiny Moore I don't like the sound of the e string.

[Bruce Clausen]

Lots of good points to think about here. The variables are single vs. double courses, arched vs. flattop vs. solid body, piezo pickup vs. magnetic, and 5 vs. 4 strings or courses. The 5th course gets you into guitar range, and lets you play richer chords (no 5-note chords with four strings!). I've played jazz guitar all my life, so when I pick up an electric mandolin I'm not looking for a guitar sound. I used a Godin for some years (four double courses, piezo pickup). Acceptable mandolin sound with tons of volume and good EQ control. But I've tried a Phoenix jazz model, and a few Jazzbos, and was very impressed. You can get a very fine acoustic sound with that sort of mando, and probably a nice electric sound with the right pickup and amp. Whether it's a "jazz" sound depends on your idea of what jazz is.

Lately I mostly play into a good mic, and move over to guitar when high volume is needed. Heard a great concert a few years ago with Andy Statman plus bass and drums— just a great player, good mandolin, good mic. Excellent sound, and great music.

[mandroid]

3 string triads , 5 strings .. the I is the middle 3 , IV and V are the 3 on either side of it,
without leaving that fret.

[JackTripper]

About how feasible would a 5-string be with mandola scale length and a low F (F C G D A)?

[djweiss]

I play a 5 string tenor guitar with a low F...Works great! Scale length is 22.75".

[mandolirius]

3 string triads , 5 strings .. the I is the middle 3 , IV and V are the 3 on either side of it,
without leaving that fret.

???

[JackTripper]

to djweiss: You wouldn't happen to know off the top of your head what gauge that F string is, would you?


to mandolirius: mandroid's talking about moving the chord shapes up, or down, a string. Say you have a 5 string mandolin (CGDAE) and your root is on the G string(your I chord), you move the same shape up to the D string on the same fret and you've got your V chord, move the same shape down to the C string on the same fret and you've got your IV chord.

[djweiss]

My 5-string tenor is an Arrow archtop, and I currently use 49, 39, 24, 16 and 11 for FCGDA, respectively. Paul's about to start building me a solid body electric, and I imagine I'll lighten up the strings a bit on that one. I've got a 4-string Tenorcaster (Earnest Instruments) that I currently have in FCGD, and on that I'm using 46, 36, 26 and 17, as my luthier at the time set it up for the lowest 4 courses of a back of Daddario EXL110.

[JackTripper]

Thanks, very much. I'd like to try to keep it closer to the mandola scale, so I'll probably need gauges at least as heavy as your archtop setup.

[zeeku777]

I would definitely say 5 string! I bought a Fender FM-60e and am absolutely in LOVE with it. The chord voicing a 5 string is capable is complete HEAVEN to a jazz cat if you come from the 4 course world. It opens up amazing possibilities for really juicy chords!

(But that children's electric guitar idea is highly recommended too!)

[mandroid]

.. meaning Using the 234 strings to form a simple 3 note chord, say the I/ tonic in the key

the Dominant V is the 321, the sub dominant IV is the 543

5th up, 4th down FCG GDA etc

[Joel Glassman]

>How feasible would a 5-string be with mandola scale length and a low F (F C G D A)?

I'd be inclined to tune that low F to a G and have a high B string

[mrmando]

About how feasible would a 5-string be with mandola scale length and a low F (F C G D A)?

Not very. At mandola scale (16 to 17 in.) you'd have floppy F disease, just as you do with a C string at mandolin scale.