What qualifies as a "jam"?

[allenhopkins]

Amazing to me how many experienced jam participants seem to need to rely on written cues, either for words or for tunes. It can get that way at folk music sing-arounds, where Rise Up Singing has become the "folk hymnal."

Shouldn't be snobbish, because I have a "trick memory" for lyrics and music, and can nearly-instantly pull out a song I haven't sung in decades and accompany myself singing it. (Not bragging, just a quirk of my particular brain; don't ask me where I put my Snark tuner!) But to me a group of people behind music stands, looking at pages rather than each other, seems more like my high school band rehearsal than an interactive jam.

Almost never see written music at Celtic seisuns, nor at old-timey jams. Bluegrass and "trad" country, it's generally lyrics only, or lyrics and chords. Some of the contra-dance and English country dance "jams" seem to involve a lot of music-reading.

I see pretty good local bluegrass bands lugging a music stand onstage for the lead singer's use, and I assume that big black notebook has words. Honestly, and not to be offensive, but I'd feel foolish reading in front of an audience, not being able to make eye contact with them, or with the others in my band.

New feature: having words and music on an iPad or similar tablet. Did a "jam" with students at a local college a while ago, and some of them had repertoire on their iPads. It was interesting when they had to have a friend work their keyboard to scroll the second verse onto the screen. Wonder what Bill Monroe would have thought of an iPad…?

[AlanN]

Oh, but he did! He wrote the number 'Frog On An iPad"

[JeffD]

If someone brings a book to a jam it is because they need to bring a book to a jam. I would sooner play music with that person than with the one who would disparage or belittle the book person.

[OldSausage]

Oh, but he did! He wrote the number 'Frog On An iPad"

Wasn't that about one of those new smaller format ones: "Frog on a li'l iPad".

[OldSausage]

If someone brings a book to a jam it is because they need to bring a book to a jam.

I'm not sure that's true. I think often people bring books to jams because they don't understand or believe they can do it without the book, whereas if they just stopped having it all on paper in front of them, their lazy brain would step up and do what it does so well.

I don't want to disparage anyone either, I want to help them build their confidence and musical abilities.

[AlanN]

Wasn't that about one of those new smaller format ones: "Frog on a li'l iPad".

Too wise. Then, he also wrote Uncle iPen, dinnit he?

Same here, no desire to kill the joy. It's just that when I see the book come out, and the booker needs to rely on it, I think the music suffers.

[Steve Lavelle]

their lazy brain

I don't want to disparage anyone either, I want to help them build their confidence and musical abilities.

Excuse me if I find the word lazy in this context disparaging.

[Tobin]

Same here, no desire to kill the joy. It's just that when I see the book come out, and the booker needs to rely on it, I think the music suffers.

The music probably does suffer. But at least the person is there playing music, instead of staying home.

[Steve Lavelle]

Anyone ever been to FLoyd, VA on a friday night? They have paid performers in the general store, but the real action is out on street where the town has now constructed little jamming areas off the sidewalk where 8 different groups gather and play. and then there is an area between buildings where the old timers sit and play. I visit there in the summers, but I've never had the guts to bring a mandolin with me. you hear everything from BG to Dawg music.

[OldSausage]

Excuse me if I find the word lazy in this context disparaging.

I don't mean that in a disparaging way - my brain is lazy, yours is lazy, everyone's brain is lazy. It conserves energy that way - being lazy is smart. The point is just that we have to understand that our brains can't help but be lazy if we want to develop and cultivate our abilities.

[GDAE]

Some old people have fuzzy memories that a book helps, some new players don't know the songs enough yet, some singers just lose the lyrics. There's nothing wrong with having reference material available, rather than turning away players who maybe just trying to learn how to do it, or the best ol' fiddler you ever heard but who can't remember things very well anymore.

[Alex Orr]

Some old people have fuzzy memories that a book helps, some new players don't know the songs enough yet, some singers just lose the lyrics. There's nothing wrong with having reference material available, rather than turning away players who maybe just trying to learn how to do it, or the best ol' fiddler you ever heard but who can't remember things very well anymore.

I agree. In my case, I just get really nervous singing, and it takes singing a song a number of times in front of others to get to the point where the nerves don't result in lyrical amnesia. I have a number of tunes I do without any cheat sheet at this point, but I still bring along a Fakebook in case I want to try something that I'm still learning to sing in a group setting.

Also, I have a terrible time remembering chord changes to fiddle tunes, and while I have ten or so really common tunes memorized, there are another couple dozen for which I can play the melody but am shaky on the chords, and so I always bring around Fiddle Tune Cheat Sheet I made myself featuring just the chord changes to thirty or so fiddle tunes.

[foldedpath]

I don't mean that in a disparaging way - my brain is lazy, yours is lazy, everyone's brain is lazy. It conserves energy that way. The point is, we have to understand that our brains can't help but be lazy if we want to develop and cultivate our abilities.

This brings up a point that I don't think has been mentioned enough in the thread. People attend jams for different reasons, and there are sometimes conflicts in motivations. Some jams and sessions are started and maintained by people with a deep interest in whatever genre they're playing. They share a burning desire to improve as a player. It can still be a friendly group open to newcomers, but the social aspect just isn't that important. They may even end up playing with people they wouldn't otherwise hang out with, for the sake of the music.

And then there are "social jammers," where being in a friendly low-pressure group is paramount, and it doesn't matter if anyone is improving as a musician. They may be improving anyway, but it's not the focus of the group. This type of musician isn't necessarily interested in developing and cultivating their abilities, as you put it.

I have amateur musician friends who know they've hit a plateau and aren't improving (because they don't practice at home and work at it), but they're perfectly happy at this level. It's good enough for the local casual acoustic jam scene, and they have fun doing that. Other friends of mine are in a constant state of low-level anxiety because they're always working hard to improve as amateur musicians. They practice hard at home, and attend jams or sessions that are a little above their ability, because they want to improve and eventually play at that higher level.

These two types of people are naturally going to gravitate towards different types of jams. And of course it's a continuum, with a few jams at each extreme and many somewhere in the middle between hardcore dedication and loose social jamming.

Anyway, it doesn't do much good to encourage a social jammer to study more at home, or get off the sheet music, if that's where they're happy and there is a local jam scene that supports them. By the same token, it's pointless to tell an obsessed amateur musician to relax about their skill level anxiety, because they have a definite goal in mind, and they're trying to get there. It's just different ideas about where the enjoyment is in playing music with others, and everyone is having fun in their own way.

[allenhopkins]

I would never want to exclude from jams, seisuns, sing-arounds or whatever, those who are dependent on sheet music, "cheat sheets" for chords and lyrics, even iPads if that's what it takes.

I just like it more when jammers can interact more fluidly, looking at and taking cues from each other, not tied to a particular written-out arrangement. I play frequently with "readers," and enjoy playing with them, but I really enjoy it when musicians are free to interact and improvise.

Moving on: one of my "pet peeves" at some jams, is when organized bands show up and play their rehearsed arrangements, with other non-band-member jammers sorta left on the outside. The bands have intros, designated breaks, vocal arrangements and everything else worked out ahead of time. And because they're already prepared, they have a tendency to monopolize the jam.

If there's a designated "host band," that's one thing, but when you show up expecting to fully participate, and end up standing on the outside of a group chording along on unfamiliar, rehearsed material, it's less fun, IMHO -- especially if it was advertised as an "open jam."

[JeffD]

Moving on: one of my "pet peeves" at some jams, is when organized bands show up and play their rehearsed arrangements, with other non-band-member jammers sorta left on the outside. The bands have intros, designated breaks, vocal arrangements and everything else worked out ahead of time. And because they're already prepared, they have a tendency to monopolize the jam.

I agree. This is real bad form. I have seen it done too often. A few musicians going through their list, obviously a set list for an upcoming gig. Using the jam as a practice session. I have even been asked to run through an arrangement with others with whom I have an upcoming gig, and had to refuse. I explained, this is jam time. We can rehearse after.

[Mike Bunting]

Wonder what Bill Monroe would have thought of an iPad…?

I can think of six words.

[greg_tsam]

As usually happens when opposing opinions clash, assumptions are made and that's just part of life. I didn't read anywhere in this thread someone saying they exclude, harass or belittle those that use paper for lyrics or music. There were some preferences stated but I doubt anyone here would kick someone out of a jam or make them feel uncomfortable. Or am I wrong?

My house jam last week went on for 3 hours without stopping and no books necessary. There were times I didn't know a tune called but I improvised it and my friends accepted it, mistakes and all. It was great.

I hope this doesn't sound too defensive but I share musical experiences with young children, Old veterans and everything in between whether they read music or bring their own. I'd bet the rest of us do too. Broad statements are too easily picked apart with specific examples. Jams can include any of the previously mentioned combinations but we all have preferences.

[greg_tsam]

I can think of six words.

As AlanN said "TANPON!"

[JeffD]

..., it doesn't do much good to encourage a social jammer to study more at home, or get off the sheet music, if that's where they're happy and there is a local jam scene that supports them. By the same token, it's pointless to tell an obsessed amateur musician to relax about their skill level anxiety, because they have a definite goal in mind, and they're trying to get there. It's just different ideas about where the enjoyment is in playing music with others, and everyone is having fun in their own way.

I agree. I further think that if someone is book laden and doesn't want to be, he will make some attempt at jumping the chasm. If not, encouraging him is pointless.

I just like to keep everyone feeling welcome and give them room to do what they can and stretch if they want.

I was at a session at Sandy Bell's, a noted pub in Edinburgh Scotland, years ago. There was a young girl there, with her father. We would start playing, and the father would open up some Mel Bay published book of Scottish Fiddle tunes and find what we were playing and put it on the music stand in front of his daughter.

It was heartbreakingly beautiful to see the youngster working to play with all of us, and the proud Dad helping (or not) as best he could. The fact that he was involved and encouraging was blessing enough.

While the bunch of us were pretty experienced and knew the tunes we made her feel comfortable and included, and even asked her to start us off because "she might be the one who knows it the right way". She did not hold us up in anyway, or prevent us from having a rip snorting good time, and she was perceptive enough to know that the book was equal parts helpful and distracting.

Having her feel welcome and part of things and not stigmatized by a book was much more important than encouraging her further. "Eventually she will get it," was probably what everyone was thinking, "but only if she has a positive good time at it now."

[GDAE]

As usually happens when opposing opinions clash, assumptions are made and that's just part of life. I didn't read anywhere in this thread someone saying they exclude, harass or belittle those that use paper for lyrics or music. There were some preferences stated but I doubt anyone here would kick someone out of a jam or make them feel uncomfortable. Or am I wrong?

Well, someone earlier said it "cracks me up" when people get out books at a bluegrass jam...someone else referred to a bjam with books being almost as bad as no jams at all.

If I were a book-user, I'd feel pretty uncomfortable playing in such a circle. For a lot of beginners, that's the only way they can feel comfortable enough to play...they'll get off book when they are ready. I play with a fiddler who's been playing for over 70 years...he looks at a book once in a while. If you laughed him off, you'd miss some brilliant fiddling.

[greg_tsam]

I agree with you, GDAE, those things were said but did they act on them? If they got all "cracked up" internally then who cares? If they blatantly let the other person know then that's different... A preference for no books at a jam vs. no jam is just a preference. Doesn't mean they belittled anyone.

BTW, You never know who you're sitting next to. I wouldn't laugh at your fiddler or anyone else.

The only thing that still irritates me at a jam is the guy that plays over everyone else but I still manage to keep it to myself. I learned the hard way that there's no sense in worrying about things you can't change. I'm in drama avoidance mode.

[Mike Snyder]

The sheer number of Irish trad, Scotch pipe tunes, contradance and old-time tunes played here in the midwest is staggering. We're talking well over a hundred tunes played fairly frequently. They come and go and come again later. Some of the folks I play with have the notation as a refresher to get a tune started or to suss out a finicky bit. Hardly anyone is glued to the iPad screen on every tune. I don't use notation, although I wish I read better so I could play unfamiliar stuff at home. My friends find it useful when learning new tunes and they are just doing the same thing with it that I'm doing with my ears. I ride 'em a bit about technology rearing its' ugly head, but I think we'd get to fewer tunes without it. Lyrics is a whole other deal, and I have trouble with them. Luckily, I'm a harmony singer, mostly, and read lips.

[Michael H Geimer]

Sometimes the facts contradict our best guesses about reality. Last night a big binder full of songs came out. It belonged to the Open Mic host, who said to me with a wink "Just you wait. Memory is the first thing to go."

Instead of The Book bringing down the music, it started a whole jam. Everyone who had performed earlier that night got back up up on stage, all of us together. A mandolin appeared as if from nowhere. Bongos, too!

That binder kept us going until a good while after closing. Great fun.

[allenhopkins]

...Last night a big binder full of songs came out….it started a whole jam...A mandolin appeared as if from nowhere. Bongos, too!...That binder kept us going until a good while after closing. Great fun.

Yeah, fair enough, but what if it had attracted a spoons player? How would you feel then?

[greg_tsam]

Yeah, fair enough, but what if it had attracted a spoons player? How would you feel then?

We had a spoons player sit in with us once. We threw her a break and she took it!