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Thread: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

  1. #76
    Registered User Joni's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    If you show up to a jam and suck, it really cheers up all the other people who suck. I always look at it as a public service.
    Too funny!!! Well I am a believer in public service-or maybe I could become comic relief

  2. #77
    Notary Sojac Paul Kotapish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    A couple of observations . . .

    Not all jams are created equal and not all cater to the interests and abilities of all players.

    Every jam develops its own traditions, protocols, expectations, and etiquette depending on the proclivities of the leaders and the regular attendees. Unless you were active in setting up the jam from the get-go, you should observe and listen for a session or two to determine if the jam is a good fit for your own interests.

    Bluegrass is a highly technical music, and not everyone--and certainly not every beginner--has the chops to keep up with a hard-core session.

    Ditto with other idioms.

    Old-time music (or Irish or Quebecois or you name it) sessions can be very welcoming to beginners, but if the session is oriented towards more experienced and expert players, the repertoire, tempos, and stylistic expectations can quickly veer into unfamiliar territory that could be frustrating for the novice.

    The proper tempo for any given tune is a matter of taste, utility, and local tradition. I've been playing for contra and square dances for the better part of 40 years now, and I tend to play reels, jigs, hoedowns, waltzes, etc. at tempos that are a comfortable fit for dancers in that style and sometimes find myself surprised when the same tunes are played at very different tempos--faster or slower--at sessions.

    If you don't like the way folks are playing tunes at a session--start your own session! Or start you own practice band with other like-minded folks who want to hear things played the same way you do.
    Just one guy's opinion
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  4. #78

    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    I think there's a difference between notey, and fast. A banjar is forever trying to crowd three into 4/4. Some call it drive, but it creates an almost over excitement feeling. When I take off on a notey passage, an unfamiliar guitar picker will speed up, because he thinks I sped up, so then we're heading for a crash.

    Heaven is a good, rock solid bass player. Somebody that knows how fast the tune should be and doesn't waiver from it. Jam or gig, it just makes it a pleasure.

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  6. #79

    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joni View Post
    I will check in my area for jams I can go to-It doesn't have to be bluegrass,does it? Can't I just start off small-and just listen? Yep, you are right-I am skeered-What is it about not wanting to ask for help? I will dip my toe,in the water and see if anything nibbles Well I guess the worst that could happen-is...that I will suck!! Yeah it would be nicer if I had a friend that played-too much,in my comfort zone?? OK-I'm not going to play the age game,I refuse-I will look into this and let you know how it works out
    Later
    Joni
    I'm proud of you. Just do it. If you can, find another beginner and go together.
    However, going alone will force you to mingle and not 'hold hands' quietly in the corner, trembling....LOL!
    And while Paul makes perfectly valid points, don't let that scare you or deter you one jot.

    Be in the moment, and simply try to learn and absorb, and most importantly, have a sense of humor and be carefree. It will liberate your playing and ability to follow and create. Trust me on this. Like any social encounter, be pleasant and good conversation and you will be amazed how things will fall into place for you.

  7. #80
    Registered User Joni's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Well,being since the area I am in,is very close to Owensboro,KY-which is bluegrass-hardcore-there are alot of bluegrass groups in this area-alot of them church based-nothing wrong with that-or it is rock-so I am not leaning either way-so I think I will try to find someone to practice with-instead of a jam-where you get to play in front of God and everybody I don't hang around anybody that plays-so I will have to search them out-I could ask my teacher-if he knows anyone I could practice with-

  8. #81

    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Start the search ,and like goldilocks, wait until its about 'just right', but get in and do it. There has to be some middle ground that you'll feel comfortable in. Rock is good too. I play rock on my mando. Take it easy, little pink houses, ripple, aimee, no expectations, lots of zep, etc-this can be a rewarding way to play too, especially simply with chords. Rock ...you need a good mic or good pick up....or maybe not just yet....,

  9. #82
    Registered User Joni's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    I was replying to Paul's post,Steve- and it just echoes that I have no business around bluegrass
    Bluegrass is a highly technical music, and not everyone--and certainly not every beginner--has the chops to keep up with a hard-core session.

  10. #83
    Registered User Joni's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevedenver View Post
    Start the search ,and like goldilocks, wait until its about 'just right', but get in and do it. There has to be some middle ground that you'll feel comfortable in. Rock is good too. I play rock on my mando. Take it easy, little pink houses, ripple, aimee, no expectations, lots of zep, etc-this can be a rewarding way to play too, especially simply with chords. Rock ...you need a good mic or good pick up....or maybe not just yet....,
    In learning my chords-I started listening to songs -Imagine Dragons and figuring out the chords based on what I heard and sometimes,not always figuring out all of the chords-Demons from Imagine Dragons-I played the melody by ear and my teacher helped me with some of the chords-I might not get all the nuances of a song-I get the basic premise-I am learning the different kinds of scales-I don't have the major and minor chords memorized-I still have to stop and think about it-I am even nervous palying in front of my teacher-and everyone thinks after a year of lessons i should want to play in front of people-I have a long way to go-but I will get there,eventually lol

  11. #84
    Registered User Wolfmanbob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Joni...play along with you tube videos. That way you can play with the best (or worst) people, you chose the songs, and no one ever gives you "a look". Its great practice, many people learn that way.
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  12. #85

    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    I think alot of folks mistake "drive" for speed..and the two are not one in the same. You can play even a slow song with drive and it's very pleasing to the ear.

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  14. #86

    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Michael Pfeiffer View Post
    I think alot of folks mistake "drive" for speed..and the two are not one in the same. You can play even a slow song with drive and it's very pleasing to the ear.
    I agree on that. Tunes played just a hair ahead of the beat are often mistaken to be faster when actually there is just more drive to them.

  15. #87
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    I was at a jam a while back and we played some old straight fiddle tunes with a "rising" mandolin player. Two of us mandolin players have been through the speed thing and some tunes are better fast but, she started something and between the three of us, we all had one fine time with the more relaxed pace. She played the lead part and we switched off playing around her, great fun and it made her feel good! We both felt like we could be more lyrical playing the different parts, it was a ball.
    There is a whole flock of "newer" pickers with little knowledge of the speed of the "designers" of bluegrass music, the Stanley brothers, WSM, Flatt and Scruggs, Country Gentlemen,etc. they have only seen the, albeit excellent, newer "Let's just how fast we CAN do it" genre. My band still does old southern style Bluegrass and some we do faster, some slower and the original things we do are typically not breakneck speed. It's all about having fun and I agree about the if you are not happy with the jam, go see a man about a horse!
    There can be places for most everyone at most jams, sometimes you just need to find the right place.
    Right on the head with the "Drive vs. Speed" thought too Eric.
    Last edited by Timbofood; Jul-29-2013 at 7:02pm. Reason: Autocorrection frustration
    Timothy F. Lewis
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  16. #88

    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Bunting View Post
    I agree on that. Tunes played just a hair ahead of the beat are often mistaken to be faster when actually there is just more drive to them.
    Also eating more possum is a good thing as well!

  17. #89
    bon vivant jaycat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Kotapish View Post
    . . . Bluegrass is a highly technical music. . .
    Well . . . yes and no. You will not be called upon to play any major 7th or 9th chords. Just learn G, C and D. If you are content to play rhythm for a while, you can stay in the background til you get the feel of things and are ready to venture out on a solo. Meanwhile you will have gotten a sense of how things work, the personalities involved, etc. No one ever screwed up a jam by playing less.
    "The paths of experimentation twist and turn through mountains of miscalculations, and often lose themselves in error and darkness!"
    --Leslie Daniel, "The Brain That Wouldn't Die."

    Some tunes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa1...SV2qtug/videos

  18. #90
    Registered User craig.collas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Fast jet joke.
    Loud is good fast is better
    Loud and fast is best.
    At a parade we had a fly past
    So fast, so loud and so low
    That all thecaralarms went off,LOL
    Craig

  19. #91
    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaycat View Post
    Just learn G, C and D. If you are content to play rhythm for a while, you can stay in the background til you get the feel of things and are ready to venture out on a solo. Meanwhile you will have gotten a sense of how things work, the personalities involved, etc. No one ever screwed up a jam by playing less.
    I know this has nothing to do with the topic of speed, but I find myself often getting a tad frustrated at jams when every song is in G. I know it's a good key for singing, but after about 6 tunes in a row, all in G, I start to get bored. When it comes my turn to pick a tune, I sometimes find myself changing my mind from what I had planned to play, because GOOD LORD I'M TIRED OF PLAYING IN G! And for some reason, my mandolin has a drastically more vibrant feel when I play in A, especially with chop chords. Or I'll pick one in D just for variety. But playing so many songs in G makes me feel like I'm stuck in second gear.

    But yes, being proficient in the key of G will give a mandolin player a lot of mileage at jams. It just gets old after a while.

    As for never screwing up by playing less, I agree. But I did the same thing you suggest when I first started going to the weekly jam that I'm a "regular" at now. I'd hang out on the edge of the circle, just playing chords along with everyone else and trying not to do anything special because I was intimidated at the idea of screwing up in front of others. Finally, someone who had heard me noodling around during warmup asked me to play what he had heard me playing earlier. It didn't go too well, but it sort of broke the ice, and let me get past the hurdle to start building up my confidence. I've been quite pleased with the friendliness and encouragement from the folks there, and it has absolutely been a huge step in learning.

    Playing chords in the background at a jam is a good idea when you're new to the group, and especially if you are still learning. But pretty soon you've got to step up for a break, or become more of a part of the group. It will open new worlds to you.

  20. #92
    String-Bending Heretic mandocrucian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    after about 6 tunes in a row, all in G, I start to get bored. When it comes my turn to pick a tune, I sometimes find myself changing my mind from what I had planned to play, because GOOD LORD I'M TIRED OF PLAYING IN G!
    Tune the whole instrument down (or up) a half step, so you'll be fingering as if you were playing in Ab, or F#. That should help you relieve the boredom!

  21. #93
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    I love this forum... I always feel better after reading everyone say what I'm thinking.

    I've only been playing for a few years, mandolin only, and I'm somewhat middle-aged. Never played anything before and I feel just like Joni - if we only lived closer, lol!

    I guess I'll start looking for some locals to start sitting in with. It's the only way I'll ever know how to play with others. Scary.

  22. #94
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Speed is just another arrow in the quill. It is constantly overused. Bluegrass however, always was about instrumental virtuosity and speed has always been highly valued. That said, I agree. I personally like to play Funk and Smooth Jazz on the mandolin, precisely because it breathes. I am a creature of improv, and the constraints of high speed are far too limiting. Personally I think a few flurries prepared in advance can be helpful to the melodic-minded performer. But I've been wrong B4.

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  24. #95
    Registered User belbein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Michael Pfeiffer View Post
    Also eating more possum is a good thing as well!
    Are there possum (is there possum?) in Argentina? Do you have to have them shipped in? Y como se dice "possum"--o "road kill"--en Espanol?
    belbein

    The bad news is that what doesn't kill us makes us stronger. The good news is that what kills us makes it no longer our problem

  25. #96
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Michael Pfeiffer View Post
    I think alot of folks mistake "drive" for speed..and the two are not one in the same. You can play even a slow song with drive and it's very pleasing to the ear.
    Tres vrai.

    Listen to Papa Wants To Go Back off a 1980 L&F recording. Fast?? No. Drive?? In spades!

  26. #97
    Slow your roll. greg_tsam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Quote Originally Posted by belbein View Post
    Y como se dice "possum"--o "road kill"--en Espanol?
    El possum
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  27. #98

    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Quote Originally Posted by greg_tsam View Post
    El possum
    Actually, it is zarigüeya.

  28. #99
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    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Bunting View Post
    Actually, it is zarigüeya.
    Show Off.
    Breedlove Quartz FF with K&K Twin - Weber Big Horn - Fender FM62SCE
    Wall Hangers - 1970's Stella A and 60's Kay Kraft

    Whether you slow your roll or mash on it, enjoy the ride.

  29. #100

    Default Re: Why is Fast, Fast and Faster Better ?

    Quote Originally Posted by greg_tsam View Post
    Show Off.

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