Curly Seckler

[CurlySechler]

Does anybody else here like Curly Seckler's tenor voice? To be perfectly honest I like it even more than Bill Monroe's voice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktLWqi8A8U0

I wanted to post this link of Flatt and Scruggs playing Foggy Mountain Special. In it we see possibly the only time Lester Flatt ever played lead. It also features one of Curly's rare mandolin solos. Does anybody here know why he didn't play lead very often?

[greg_tsam]

So are we talking about Curly's voice or lead mandolin playing? And will the real Curly Seckler please stand up?

[Matteo]

Yup, big fan here, both his voice and his mandolin playing.
I think the reason behind him not playing too many lead breaks is that the FMB wanted to make their sound as different to Monroe's as possible.
He did, however, play several breaks during his days with Lester and Earl:

- Baby Blue Eyes
- Bouquet In Heaven (splits with fiddle)
- Why Don't You Tell Me So
- I'll Never Love Another
- Thinking About You
- Foggy Mountain Special

Most of these, if not all, rely on the use of tremolo and double-stops, and are worthy of being studied by serious old-school bluegrass mandolin players.

Interestingly enough, there are two songs that the FMB recorded in 1950 (Back To The Cross and Will The Roses Bloom) where the lead mandolin is being played by Jody Rainwater instead of Curly...I've always wondered why...

And, there's several surviving live and radio recordings that feature more of Curly's lead playing, mostly stuff he didn't record (He Took Your Place, Over The Hill To The Poorhouse, We'll Meet Again Sweetheart, Angel Band...) which is also very interesting to understand his way of approaching a solo.

Finally, Everett Lilly, who played mandolin with the FMB in 1951-52, recorded a good number of superb breaks during this short tenure. In his biography, Earl Scruggs states "That’s a matter of interpretation. We never asked Everett to stick to rhythm at all ‘cause Everett was a good mandolin picker. Now, that’s exactly how it was. But if Everett interpreted that was what he was supposed to do, he never indicated that."

Hmmm...can you tell I'm a fan?
Matt.

[CurlySechler]

Thanks for the information. I have the FMB's complete Mercury recordings and you are right, his solos tend to be based around tremolo. I haven't heard many mandolin players who can match his double stop tremolo.

[Willie Poole]

One time when Lester introduced Curly he said "He ain`t much of a mandolin picker but he holds it real nice" or something close to those words....I always thought he was a better tenor singer than Monroe also...Surprisingly Lester also did some tenor work on some of their older recordings, at least that is according to some info that I once heard a radio DJ say.....

[greg_tsam]

It was a simpler time and I enjoyed the tremolo double stops and playing straight melody. My friend was explaining the differences in singing and that straight and simple was cleaner than all the vocal gymnastics that many use (Think about any recent pop star singing the Star Spangled Banner like it was a jazzy gospel song.) It's a nice departure from some of the overdone styles we are accustomed to today.

[jim simpson]

Count me also as a fan. His guest work on Grisman's "Home Is Where The Heart Is" 2 disc set is nice (Little Cabin Home On A Hill).

[Spencer]

Thanks for the information. I have the FMB's complete Mercury recordings and you are right, his solos tend to be based around tremolo. I haven't heard many mandolin players who can match his double stop tremolo.

Nate Bray took Curly's solo in Thinking About You, and shined it up a bit. It has always been one of my favorite breaks. Can be found on Rounder CD "Prairie Bluegrass", by Red Cravens and the Bray Brothers. I put a crude copy of it on mandozine.com, but it doesn't do justice to the real thing:

Thinking About YouBreak.mp3

Spencer

[Matteo]

And then...there's that 1941 radio transcript of Curly with Ramblin' Tommy Scott, just the two of them, where Curly does ALL the lead picking and also provides a rousing version of Woah Mule on the mandolin...unfortunately, a lot of radio static is present, but it's still very enjoyable.

And YES, as for bluegrass music, I'll take his down-to-earth style over any of the modern, 1000-notes-per-second, scale-driven players today!
Matt.

[Spencer]

Just found out I messed up, and the sound bite I posted in an earlier message isn't the break at all. Too late to edit the message and remove it, but I'll try to get the right break up before too long, its on another computer. Sorry 'bout that

Spencer

[Spencer]

Here's the correct version of the break I tried to post earlier. Sorry for the confusion.

Thinking About You Nate Bray.mp3

Spencer

[swampstomper]

For you Curly Seckler fans (me included) he is in fine voice and playing guitar (leaving the mando in the capable hands of Herschel Sizemore) on the County LP 732 (1971), backed by the Shenandoah Cutups of the time (Herschel, John Palmer, Billy Edwards, Tater Tate on fiddle -- he played mostly guitar with that band). I don't think it's been reissued on CD, you can find the ripped LP in various places.

[Matteo]

For you Curly Seckler fans (me included) he is in fine voice and playing guitar (leaving the mando in the capable hands of Herschel Sizemore) on the County LP 732 (1971), backed by the Shenandoah Cutups of the time (Herschel, John Palmer, Billy Edwards, Tater Tate on fiddle -- he played mostly guitar with that band). I don't think it's been reissued on CD, you can find the ripped LP in various places.

That's a real fine one, and it has Herschel Sizemore doing some fine Seckler-style breaks aswell!

[swampstomper]

That's a real fine one, and it has Herschel Sizemore doing some fine Seckler-style breaks aswell!

Yep, Herschel channels Curly (and Nate Bray) on "Thinking About You" and does a break that Curly would have done if F&S had let him on "Don't This Road...". But he is 100% Herschel on "Old Salty Dog"

Also, on this LP I am pretty sure that Billy Edwards sings most of the leads and Curly sings his inimitable tenor.

[Timbofood]

Matteo, you got bitten by the same bug as I did! The old school has so much to teach the youngsters, the music has been changed by media attention from the speed side, not the more "tender, thoughtful" school of Bill Bolick, Curly Seckler, Everett Lilly et al.
The new sound is fun but, if you don't know where you came from, how do you know where you are going? The old guys had so much taste and were working so hard, the road life then was so much harder, not that it's easy now. Not my cup of tea by any stretch.

[Willie Poole]

I`m with you Tim...AMEN

[Matteo]

...and does a break that Curly would have done if F&S had let him on "Don't This Road..."

Yes, right! Actually, there's video evidence of Curly playing a short turnaround solo on that song, which is a bit different, but Herschel sure had studied that style!

Matteo, you got bitten by the same bug as I did! The old school has so much to teach the youngsters, the music has been changed by media attention from the speed side, not the more "tender, thoughtful" school of Bill Bolick, Curly Seckler, Everett Lilly et al.
The new sound is fun but, if you don't know where you came from, how do you know where you are going? The old guys had so much taste and were working so hard, the road life then was so much harder, not that it's easy now. Not my cup of tea by any stretch.

There you go, that's exactly where I stand myself Tim!
Cheers!

[Gary Hedrick]

Here's the correct version of the break I tried to post earlier. Sorry for the confusion.

Thinking About You Nate Bray.mp3

Spencer

Are we allowed to post MP3's of old music....if so I have a bunch of stuff that I would post from old Bean Blossom tapes that would add to conversations like this.......I have some Curly work from the old Martha White show.....as a young boy I would get up to tape the show before school......good stuff!!

[Matteo]

Are we allowed to post MP3's of old music....if so I have a bunch of stuff that I would post from old Bean Blossom tapes that would add to conversations like this.......I have some Curly work from the old Martha White show.....as a young boy I would get up to tape the show before school......good stuff!!

Gary, I think I contacted you once, if you're ever interested in trading old live stuff, I'd love to do that!

[300win]

One time when Lester introduced Curly he said "He ain`t much of a mandolin picker but he holds it real nice" or something close to those words....I always thought he was a better tenor singer than Monroe also...Surprisingly Lester also did some tenor work on some of their older recordings, at least that is according to some info that I once heard a radio DJ say.....

Always heard it went ..." well he ain't much of a mandolin picker but he holds on too one the best I ever seen ".....I've heard a bunch of 'quotes' over the years that folks heard Lester, Bill, whoever back in the old days. How can we tell which ones was real or not, but there was some that were funny. I always heard a tale that back when Bill and Charlie were together that once Charlie took a guitar and slammed it up against Bill's head, mad at him so the story goes over a woman. Also heard a tale that one of them pulled a knife on the other, either Bill on Charlie or Charlie on Bill. By the way the slamming guitar incident was supposed to have happened at a school house in my home state of North Carolina.