Old Bouzouki--Can any one help identify?

[zoukboy]

Wow! Do you have a front view?

[kmmando]

Here's a snap or two of an older trichordo I own, bought in 1983 from John Alvey Turner's small shop in London for £60. Can any of our Greek correspondents translate the labelor identify the maker and date?

[Giannis Tsoulogiannis]

Probably made in the 60's.Samuelian is an Armenian maker in Athens.Cheap instrument

[alk]

Samuelian perhaps wasn't even the maker of this instrument. The label reads: Music Shop, Samuelian, Athens ..etc.
it doesn't actually say it was built by him...
It was common practice at the time for music shops to sell bouzoukis made in "ghost" workshops. Workshops in a sense that ,each instrument was the result of many makers work. Someone would only make backs, someone would only varnish...etc. So you don't have the concept of master Luthier there.
It is not uncommon to find identical instruments with different labels inside and as I said, because they were put together ...anonymously... to be sold in various shops, it's not possible to tell who was involved in actually building each one.
Having said that, a lot of them did survive a good 50+ years which proves there was a certain amount of artistry in their building. The ones that have completely perished were the ones with the "black" walnut back. A black walnut back would be a normal walnut bowl back, treated with acid so it would turn very dark. The appearance was fashionable at the time, the sound apparently got a bit brighter..and also you never had shrinkage problems with the staves. However the wood would become brittle and often (not always!) practically dissolve in a few years time.
Yours was spared that process. it looks lovely.
BTW: your 2 bottom strings should be tuned in octaves so you only need one bass string and the other one should be the same as your two top strings. so tuning should be Dd aa dd.(i think yours has 2 bass strings)

[zoukboy]

BTW: your 2 bottom strings should be tuned in octaves so you only need one bass string and the other one should be the same as your two top strings. so tuning should be Dd aa dd.(i think yours has 2 bass strings)

Beekeeper:

I am betting that Kevin has that strung in the same manner as Alec Finn's trichordo, with a unison pair on the low D string. Right, Kev?

[kmmando]

Thanks Beekeeper, that's all very interesting. Thanks for making time to go into the details. Its well built, though not a high end instrument, but has a lovely vintage vibe to it.

Yes, quite right about the paired rather than octave low D, I used it when I got it in 1983 in a "Celtic" fashion and the double pairing gave a wee bit more weight, in the manner that Roger describes accurately.

It was really unusual to find bouzoukis in Britain in those day, so I just grabbed the first one I saw. Didn't see another fpr a very long time, apart from one Alec and I found in a music shop in Ithaca, when doing a gig at Cornel University with De Danann, which Alec bought, and then gave me at the end of the tour, mainly because I'd carried it around all tour for him! It was warped badly, and I had a neck job done on it which ruined it, sadly. That one hangs in our house in the Highlands as a memento of the touring days.

[alk]

Cool!i'd love to hear the double low D sound,i might try it in mine.
Yes,not many greek bouzoukis made it to the UK.having said that,in the last 3years i found a top from a ruined body and more recently a complete instrument with a matching (sadly damaged)top. They look very similar to yours.I am thinking of putting the good top on the instrument,see if i can get it to make a sound.

[kmmando]

Here's the greatest exponent of the use of a Greek bouzouki in Irish traditional music accompaniment - it'll give you a feel for the paired sounds.

[vkioulaphides]

Yup, Samuelian is a retailer in Monastiraki, the tourist-trap shopping district behind the Acropolis. I've been to his shop several times, but never actually bought anything there.

Cheers,

Victor

[Giannis Tsoulogiannis]

Yup, Samuelian is a retailer in Monastiraki, the tourist-trap shopping district behind the Acropolis. I've been to his shop several times, but never actually bought anything there.

Cheers,

Victor

I thought he was a maker like many other Armenians.Mistake.Γράψε λάθος!

[vkioulaphides]

Well... he may also be a luthier himself; that I wouldn't know. The instruments I have seen at his store are so very disparate and inconsistent that they couldn't possibly have been made by the same luthier. He seems to be selling indiscriminately to the tourist crowds of Monastiraki— but, who knows, perhaps he may have some instruments of his own there, as well.

In any case, I'll be in Athens the first week of February. If you can trek up from Sparta, we could pay him a visit together. Coffee and baklava are on me.

Cheers,

Victor

[Giannis Tsoulogiannis]

Ok! I will bring the Tsipouro!!

[vkioulaphides]

It's a deal!

[Margriet]

Could we join ? ;-)
Though Dutch cheese and stroopwafels will not really add.

[vkioulaphides]

Graag! Gladly!

The stroopwafels will be for after the late-night drinks— letting them sit for a while on the rim of a cup full of some hot beverage, so that the steam softens the syrup somewhat.

Cheers,

Victor

[Giannis Tsoulogiannis]

We will keep in touch!!I will be very happy to see you again!

[Mike Anderson]

Ah, I wish I could go on that trip to Athens myself! I've lurked in this thread until today but just want to say how much I'm enjoying it. Now I have to find a source for Tsipouro in Canada! I can get grappa anywhere, but where is the Tsipouro?

Giannis, your blog is wonderful, such beautiful instruments! I am curious - the post from September 28, in the title of your post about those fine looking little instruments it translates as "baglama". Baglama is of course also a Turkish instrument - is this a Greek variation? Are they widely available in Greece?

Thanks,
Michael.

[vkioulaphides]

Hello, Michael.

Giannis is far more knowledgeable than I on this topic, and he will surely reply to you shortly. All I can tell you is that the Greek baglama is a particular instrument, the octave-diminutive of the three-course bouzouki. The Turkish baglama, on the other hand, is an entire family of long-necked lutes, much, much larger than the Greek instrument by the same name. A Turkish musician once told me that "baglama" refers literally to "bindings" i.e. the bound, movable frets on the neck of the Turkish baglama; according to him, this was to differentiate this family of instruments from the fretless ouds. But that, of course, is second-hand knowledge, so I am not qualified to either corroborate it or refute it.

By way of analogy, the Greek baglama is to to the three-course Greek bouzouki what the piccolo is to the flute: an octave higher, what Italians call ottavino.

I leave the more expert discussion to Giannis.

Cheers,

Victor

[Graham McDonald]

I was going back over this thread and noticed a link in Beekeeper's post #20 to a photo of Peristeris and a group of what looks like Neapolitan mandolin and mandocello/liuto players. I would love to know more about Peristeris and the Greek mandolin community of a century ago. As some here will know I am slowly working on a what is becoming an alarmingly large book on mandolin family instruments and the chapter on mandolin like things to the east of Italy is looming. We will be in Greece next year (herself having expressed a desire to visit a Greek island) and I should be allowed a day or so in Athens to visit museums and shops and builders. The museum of traditional instruments is high on that list at the moment. Other suggestions welcomed

cheers

[Giannis Tsoulogiannis]

Thank you Mike!
Victor was clear on what Baglamas is.
It was in use mostly on prison because of its small size and many times "manges" were hid it under their jackets.
These instruments have great sound and their string length varies from 33 to 40 .
There are two building methods, with ribs (like mandolin)or from a hollowed single piece of wood(like a sculpture).

[Mike Anderson]

Thank you Mike!
Victor was clear on what Baglamas is.
It was in use mostly on prison because of its small size and many times "manges" were hid it under their jackets.
These instruments have great sound and their string length varies from 33 to 40 .
There are two building methods, with ribs (like mandolin)or from a hollowed single piece of wood(like a sculpture).

Thank you Giannis, this is all good information!

[alk]

I was going back over this thread and noticed a link in Beekeeper's post #20 to a photo of Peristeris and a group of what looks like Neapolitan mandolin and mandocello/liuto players. I would love to know more about Peristeris and the Greek mandolin community of a century ago. As some here will know I am slowly working on a what is becoming an alarmingly large book on mandolin family instruments and the chapter on mandolin like things to the east of Italy is looming. We will be in Greece next year (herself having expressed a desire to visit a Greek island) and I should be allowed a day or so in Athens to visit museums and shops and builders. The museum of traditional instruments is high on that list at the moment. Other suggestions welcomed

cheers

wow, an interesting project. I don't know what else would be interesting to share. Peristeris was born right at the start of the 20th century in Ismir (or smyrni) and was educated in Istanbul. His main instrument was the mandolin, he was a proper virtuoso. He also got the chance to travel a bit, as a traveling musician on cruise ships with his group (the one you see in the photo). There are few recordings of him playing the mandolin as well as other instruments (including the mandola) beautifully.

As western sounds gradually enriched the music of Ismir and Istanbul,the mandolin and mandola gained an important place in the music of that region. The term estudiana was ..borrowed from the west, to name several music groups , often containing mandolins. On the other hand, around the Ionian Islands, like Corfu and Zakinthos, the Venetian occupation had introduced the mandolinata type of ensemble, a tradition which remains alive until today. Compared to the music of peristeris and other mandolin players of Asia Minor, the Ionian Island style of mandolin playing was much more influenced by Italy, and not as much by the eastern Mediterranean sound(Greek-Turkish, whatever you want to call it)
Hope this helps.

[ollaimh]

yeah gorgeous and fascinating. was ionnes stathoupoulo related to anastasios?

anastasios may have done his redesign of his bouzouki in new York but he still likely saw the chios instruments while in Smyrna, as least occasionally.

[alk]

Giannis wrote an interesting article some time ago about ioannes and anastasios being relatives. if i remember correctly:although there is no definite proof yet,there is evidence that they were related.Apparently they used similar labels as well.

[TKlein]

Those who are interested in the history of the bouzouki and its early recordings will probably find this of interest

http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/tam_bouz.htm

For the very first known recording of a bouzouki and for, among other things, a fairly exhaustive collection of Peristeris' instrumentals on mandolin, guitar and bouzouki, other early mandolin recordings (1905, 1928) and other 1930s bouzouki solos, this may also be of interest

http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/rhapsody.htm