Loar forgery / fake Serial # 80263

[almeriastrings]

He's claiming to be an attorney, while misrepresenting a fake object as an original for a lousy $14K?

Not worth any real attorney losing their career over, I'd have thought.

[Rodney Riley]

Stuart Smith's private message to me late last night via this site:
*as he has opted not to receive a reply by PM, my response is below the brown one from him.

Sir,

... your actions, you and this forum are directly responsible for under the law? If not, as an attorney, I am informing you of them now.s.

Regards,
Stuart

A lawyer? And from Illinois! Let's see lawyers tend to enter into politics... Could end up as a Senator... Then could possibly... Better be on our best behavior people. Never know where he could show up.

[f5loar]

Dear Mr. Smith, For $50 and the same photos you have posted sent by email to Gruhn Guitars in Nashville, TN will tell you all you need to know about what you do and don't have in that F5 style mandolin. Why put off the agony for $50? And hey if it turns out to be real you will get way more than your asking $15,000 in fact it would ten fold to at least $150,000 even without the original tuners or case and assuming original 1924 finish. And in case you don't know Mr. Gruhn at Gruhn Guitars, he has been doing vintage written appraisals since 1969. He did the appraisals for the estates of Bill Monroe and Mother Maybelle Carter. It's been told George is good enough to just smell a photograph of a vintage instrument and can tell if it's real or not. And if you have already gotten one positive 1924 appraisal I strongly advise without counsel to get a 2nd opinion in which case you may be able to sue your first appraiser.

[mrmando]

A lawyer? And from Illinois! Let's see lawyers tend to enter into politics... Could end up as a Senator... Then could possibly... Better be on our best behavior people. Never know where he could show up.

Probably the same place the last few Illinois governors have gone...

[Paul Statman]

Dear Mr. Smith, For $50 and the same photos you have posted sent by email to Gruhn Guitars in Nashville, TN will tell you all you need to know about what you do and don't have in that F5 style mandolin. Why put off the agony for $50? And hey if it turns out to be real you will get way more than your asking $15,000 in fact it would ten fold to at least $150,000 even without the original tuners or case and assuming original 1924 finish. And in case you don't know Mr. Gruhn at Gruhn Guitars, he has been doing vintage written appraisals since 1969. He did the appraisals for the estates of Bill Monroe and Mother Maybelle Carter. It's been told George is good enough to just smell a photograph of a vintage instrument and can tell if it's real or not. And if you have already gotten one positive 1924 appraisal I strongly advise without counsel to get a 2nd opinion in which case you may be able to sue your first appraiser.

Thanks, f5loar! You posted the perfect response to this. Thank you for your sober insight.

[Scott Tichenor]

Calling bluff. Every lawyer I've met can construct a far better sentence. Funny, his law practice or anything about law is not discussed in his column he he wrote for (attached) The Source - UPBEAT, LOCAL NEWS COVERAGE SERVING MORGAN COUNTY (Illinois). I say he's a struggling 30 something musician that thinks he can pull a scam selling a mandolin for multiples over what it's worth. I've blocked out his email address in the attached but I can assure you it matches his (now disabled) forum account. Shouldn't be difficult to find online if anyone wants to Easter Egg hunt on Google for it.

[Tobin]

He's claiming to be an attorney, while misrepresenting a fake object as an original for a lousy $14K?

Not worth any real attorney losing their career over, I'd have thought.

If he is an actual attorney licensed in the State of Illinois, he will be registered here: http://www.iardc.org/lawyersearch.asp

I see two attorneys listed with that name, both in Chicago. This CL listing is in Springfield, though, which is quite a ways from Chicago. I have no clue if he is one of those attorneys. But it is *possible*, I suppose.

[mrmando]

Now appearing in Richmond!

http://richmond.craigslist.org/msg/4041145792.html

And Chicago!

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/msg/4041112877.html

[Paul Statman]

What is wrong with this Smith fellow?

[f5loar]

At this point I am more concerned as to why a man would lie to his grandson like this. And what in name of Sam's hill happened to that original Loar case?

[Gary Hedrick]

George Gruhn had it for sale a short time back.....

[mrmando]

I don't think Brandon Farley is old enough to be Stuart Smith's grandpa ...

[Paul Statman]

George Gruhn had it for sale a short time back.....

Had what for sale- the grandfather?!

[mrmando]

Yep, stuffed and mounted.

[f5loar]

Had what for sale- the grandfather?!

The missing Loar case! He was asking $10,000 for the case.

[Rodney Riley]

Probably the same place the last few Illinois governors have gone...

I was thinking more of where the Senator went... The one that the Governor got in trouble for trying to sell his seat... Smith would have the ability to find all of us then... Oh, wait, THEY don't do that!!

[Russ Donahue]

"has beens/never were" and wasting your mid-life crisis hunched over a computer screen."

You know, he makes it sound kinda' romantic.

[Gary Hedrick]

The missing Loar case! He was asking $10,000 for the case.

Let's see $10k for the case and 15K for the mandolin.....still $165k short......oh boy

[Wolfboy]

This is immensely entertaining.

My reply to his Nashville cl ad:

Mr Smith~

Your mandolin is clearly a fake with a bogus label. Those Grover tuners haven't been around long enough to qualify as old, and this instrument has never seen the inside of any Gibson factory.
I repeat: this is not a Gibson product of any era, let alone a rare 1924 F5.

Stuart Smith's private message to me late last night via this site:

Sir,
Do you understand the meaning of "libel"?

Libel: a : a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression
b (1) : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt (2) : defamation of a person by written or representational means (3) : the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures (4) : the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel

(From Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary; emphases mine)

It ain't libel if it's true, Mr. Smith...

[mrmando]

mandopixie didn't say anything directly against Mr. Smith, just against his mandolin. And I might be wrong, but I don't think you can commit libel against an inanimate object.

Anyhow, the four CL ads we've found all appear to have been pulled for now. But I doubt we've seen the last of this mandolin.

[Wolfboy]

mandopixie didn't say anything directly against Mr. Smith, just against his mandolin. And I might be wrong, but I don't think you can commit libel against an inanimate object.

Exactly, that was my point: Mr. Smith was the one who brought up the word "libel" and the implicit threat that went with it, whereas all mandopixie did was state a provable fact about the mandolin. No libel there, nothing unjust, defamatory or any of the rest of it.

Anyhow, the four CL ads we've found all appear to have been pulled for now. But I doubt we've seen the last of this mandolin.

Well, if it resurfaces, I imagine the eagle-eyed experts here at the Cafe will pounce on it again soon enough...

[mrmando]

This is immensely entertaining.

Well, an artist such as yourself, who has provided wonderful entertainment for all of us for many years, is entitled to a little entertainment in return now and then.

[f5loar]

Okay guys, it's time to leave Mr. Smith alone. He really cannot help his actions or illusions of reality. He has admitted publically to being the direct son of a "Dead-Head" father. We should all apologize to him for his in-abilities to understand what it is we are trying to tell him. Ah........... what the heck, one more time just for fun "IT'S A FAKE LOAR". Now I feel better in knowing I have spoken the truth. This truth has set me free and I didn't have to spend $50 to find this truth out but all this may be because I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night and awoke to their 100% Arabica Smart Roast℠ Coffee and their patented, melty, gooey, fresh baked cinnamon rolls.

[John McCoy]

Tom, you are too funny!

[Scott Tichenor]

He is not an attorney and he needs to stop the lies about it. He also claims to be a born again Christian in various online writing. I'd say that's also some kind of front as well. Guy can't even tell himself the truth.

I'm looking at his Facebook page right now. I'd say he's maybe 30 and an unemployed musician. What you may be thinking would be correct: I have more inside information on him. I'm not going to publish that Facebook page but I'm considering doing so and if anyone finds it I can't say I'll object if they do. It's public information. I've alerted some national used and vintage dealers around the country that I'm in contact about this. The more people that know about this ongoing fraud the better.

Another step we've taken is this thread is now pinned to the top of the eBay/Craig's List category so that it's prominent and visible at all times on this forum. It's not going to drift away to page 2 like he thinks. I deal with keeping this kind of garbage off the site every day. Just part of the job. What I don't like is having members and the general mandolin community receiving threatening messages from someone trying to bully people. We will take appropriate steps to rectify this situation until the instrument is honestly represented for what it is. It's simply a forged musical instrument that may have value in making music, but it's no collector's item and needs to be represented accordingly.