The Myths of the Mandolin

[pefjr]

"It's like playan upside down guitar!"

f-d

Jimmy Hendricks coulda been a Grisman contender. *with a lefthander mando....I think.

[greg_tsam]

That's a myth! Well, it's sort of true, kind of coincidence, but that it has anything to do with anything? Myth. It ain't no part of nothin'. (Bill Monroe saying that could be a myth, much discussed elsewhere.) Yes, a G chord on the lowest four strings of a guitar is a mirror image of a G chord on a mandolin, but ... so?

You speaking Greek?

I speak Greek, pefjr, and that ain't what journeybear is speaking, rey filo mou. What he's speaking is KeyWestner-ese mixed with rum and coca-cola, I reckon.

[foldedpath]

"Irish Traditional Music should only be played on an oval hole mandolin."

[pefjr]

I speak Greek, pefjr, and that ain't what journeybear is speaking, rey filo mou. What he's speaking is KeyWestner-ese mixed with rum and coca-cola, I reckon.

You know he has some Key Lime squeezed in too. That is Conch speak I think.

[billkilpatrick]

i'm sure some individual mass produced mandolins are better than other mass produced mandolins - in the same way that you're better off buying a car out of detroit that was made in the middle of the week and not on a monday or friday. the lloyd loar name exudes myth ... and mojo ... and macho-got-bucks ... and a whole slew extraneous factors which don't seem to matter much when you find a mandolin that sounds right, feels right and is one you can afford.

i think the marketing of mandolins is pretty myth-y too.

[Tiderider]

I've been told MAS is curable, I'm fairly confident this is a myth.

[JeffD]

Myth: there is no "right way", you just do what works for you.

Myth: This is the right way.

[Gelsenbury]

So why was I learning all these scales and arpeggios and double stops, slides and agonizing over planting and not planting when all Steve Earl seems to need is a handful of two finger chords.

The funny thing is that nice-sounding two-finger chords are one of the things that I would spontaneously have nominated as among the most mandolinny. When you talk about not playing the mandolin like a small guitar, I know what you mean in principle. But in the detail, I'm struggling to think of techniques that really distinguish mandolin playing from guitar playing ... or that are characteristic of the mandolin as an instrument rather than being characteristic of its specific use in, say, bluegrass or Irish music.

Not that I'm in any danger of playing the mandolin like a guitar - I can't play guitar and have never tried to learn it.

[JeffD]

Well it does kind of depend on the type of music.

But here is Galway Girl. Let me know what you think.

[Bill Foss]

Personally i would find it refreshing to see a modern-made paddle head, but my taste is far from mainstream.

I should post some pictures of my AWESOME Vessel paddle head!

[Jesse Harmon]

Well that explains what you meant. I have never seen the mandolin used in that way and I'm not sure you could make the statement that most guitar to mando converts would even plan to head in that direction. From the start the charm for me was playing single line melodies after having to deal with the harmonic complexity that is necessary in guitar. Actually I think he did himself a disservice by not choosing guitar for that. Just an opinion.

[Ed Goist]

You guys are all making this too difficult...If someone plays the mandolin, and the average music fan has heard of that person, then that person plays the mandolin like a guitar. ...

[David Lewis]

It is a known fact (not a myth) that there are many Loar era mandolins including F5s with fretboards that were cut wrong. I had an F4 from that time period and my luthier showed me where it was not right. A friend has two A2Zs that he had to change out the fretboard.

thanks for that. I didnt know that, and its good to know. is it all of them?

[bratsche]

Myth: that "mandolinny" (rhymes with 'ninny'?) is a universally recognized quality or characteristic...

...or a real word, for that matter...

bratsche

[JeffD]

You guys are all making this too difficult...If someone plays the mandolin, and the average music fan has heard of that person, then that person plays the mandolin like a guitar. ...

Now that is funny.

[JeffD]

I'm not sure you could make the statement that most guitar to mando converts would even plan to head in that direction. .

I agree with you there.

[JeffD]

Myth: that "mandolinny" (rhymes with 'ninny'?) is a universally recognized quality or characteristic...

...or a real word, for that matter...

I know. What would be a good word. Mandolinistic?

A very successful and noteworthy old time fiddler told me my way of holding the violin was too violinistic, from which I imply not fiddlistic enough.

[journeybear]

Or in a word, fiddlesticks!

And greg and pef - No, that was English, not adulterated by any alcohol. I've heard that so many times that it just doesn't matter any more - as if it ever did. My opinion on the matter - that it is coincidental and inconsequential, and thus a myth - was summed up in my final word on the subject - "So?"

[billkilpatrick]

Myth: that "mandolinny" (rhymes with 'ninny'?) is a universally recognized quality or characteristic... ...or a real word, for that matter... bratsche

mandomorphic (contents vary but the case remains the same)
mandomanipulative ("lloyd loar mandolin on ebay - real cheap!")
mandomiasmic (unpleasant f-hole sniffing)

... man go to work now ...

[Gelsenbury]

But here is Galway Girl. Let me know what you think.

I knew the song already, but had never seen the video. I agree that he doesn't do a great deal with the mandolin. But it still sounds like a mandolin, and perhaps that's all he wanted.

So what do you suggest he could have done in order to make it more mandolinny? Do you have some examples, with specific reference to this song?

Just in case this comes across badly in typed text: I'm not disagreeing with your argument or trying to be confrontational. I'm just trying to understand the concept of mandolinny playing on a concrete example.

[Bertram Henze]

mandomorphic (contents vary but the case remains the same)
mandomanipulative ("lloyd loar mandolin on ebay - real cheap!")
mandomiasmic (unpleasant f-hole sniffing)

mandolastic (for a soft tone)

[Jesse Harmon]

mandorhea (virtuoso excessively fast riff playing)

[JeffD]

So what do you suggest he could have done in order to make it more mandolinny? Do you have some examples, with specific reference to this song?

Just in case this comes across badly in typed text: I'm not disagreeing with your argument or trying to be confrontational. I'm just trying to understand the concept of mandolinny playing on a concrete example.

Well in the IT sessions I have attended the mandolin plays melody, in unison with the fiddles, floots and whistles. For that particular song, and octave mandolin or bouzouki playing melody might have been nice.

But I think you are right, what is there is what he wanted. In other words, for that piece he didn't want the mandolin to be more than it was. And musically (and commercially) I figure it was the right choice. So I am not saying its wrong, just doesn't show much mandolin.

[JeffD]

Well that explains what you meant. I have never seen the mandolin used in that way .

Paul McCartney does that tune Dance Tonight, with a left handed mandolin. Similar thing. (In that case, though, I don't much care for the song.)

As a contrast, after much listening, I have changed my mind and I think the work Eddie Vedder does with mandolin on Rise cannot be done on another instrument. It is interesting and takes some advantage IMO of mandolin tonalities, though perhaps not in a "traditional" mandolin way. The strong fifth tuning and near harmonies you can reach with that are nice, and match what the song is getting at. I have heard it done with a guitar, (alt-tuned in fifths to accomplish it) and it was not as effective.

So "mandolinny" doesn't necessarily have to be bluegrassy, or "traditional" in either picking or harmonies or chords. It means doing stuff that takes advantage of what is unique about the mandolin.

[Jim Garber]

Example of the ultimatewell-known non-bluegrass, mandolinniness (mandolinesqueness?): Losing My Religion