Getting a mando in Canada....

[Celena]

Hi there all, so I was all set to order my first mandolin from mandolinstore and then at checkout saw that the shipping was $69. Sound high but Elderly charges even more at $100. Folkmusician is getting back to me with a quote. And mandolinhut so far is the best at $35. I have also shopped around at a couple of Canadian web dealers but the selection is severely limited.

So, that brings me to my question, does anyone have any recommendations for getting a mando to or in Canada?

My budget is $300 max (including shipping). I would like solid wood or at least a solid top. I am not against buying used but being a newbie would have a hard time knowing if I am getting a decent mando and setup and the Canadian used prices seem outrageous. I guess that is because they all paid so much for shipping when they bought them new!

[Mike Bunting]

Where are you?

[Celena]

Not far from you. Prince George (BC, for those that don't know that).

[Mike Bunting]

List member Kerry Krishna is in Prince George, maybe he can be a help to you. I'll PM him to let him know where to find you.

[Raggle Taggle]

Celena, I can appreciate for your first mandolin you are trying to be as thrifty as possible. As a fellow Canadian, I have had many adventures in getting mandolins shipped to me. You can buy as diligently (and thrifty) as possible from a distance, as we must, but you cannot escape the necessity of expensive shipping costs. There are two choices, where ever you buy from in North America. Ground transport or air. A mandolin shipped via USPS air or Canada Post air costs around $80 to just about anywhere in Canada these days. Commercial accounts get deals but ususally that helps (them) to recover their overheads as a business. The cheapest route is ground transport, such as USPS or Canada Post economy service. This is a very dangerous choice for mandolins from the US. Not only will it take perhaps 4-5 weeks to arrive and clear customs, during that long period of shipping something reallly bad can happen to your mandolin. Consider the humidity and temperature changes in that long voyage. IF you purchase from the US do yourself a favour (note Canadian spelling) and have it shipped via air. It will still take up to 10 days or so (factoring customs), but it is the best choice. Or, you could phone a reasonable close reputable store that specializes in acoustic instruments such as Mhyres Music in Edmonton, and have them ship to you via Parcel Post.

[Charlieshafer]

I like Raggle Taggles' post, not because I'm Canadian, but because I'm an extreme proponent of buying as local as possible. Not just for the economics, but because you'll also develop a relationship with people closer to you who may know other people close to you and before you know it you're part of a great community you never knew existed. Really cool things happen when you keep it as local as possible.

[rideough]

Have you considered Long and McQuade? I picked up an Eastman there recently.

[Andrew B. Carlson]

I was quoted $380 to get a mandolin from L.A. to Edmonton via FedEx. USPS did it with insurance for $85. My KM-1000 was a steal from a fellow cafe member so the shipping didn't bother me much.

[JH Murray]

Axe'n Gear Music is an EBay seller from Toronto area. I just bought a Trinity College Octave Mandolin from. He is well worth checking out.

[mandolirius]

One important thing to consider is the choice of shipper. If you use a courier service, the package will go through a customs broker. That could add a lot of extra money to the shipping charge. If you can, you're far better off using USPS/Canada Post. They have a one thousand dollar maximum for insurance but it sounds like you're well under that.

[Celena]

Thanks for the input everyone. I completely agree with buying local and have been checking into that. In talking with people locally about set-up I have been told by a couple of people that set-up on a mando is usually pretty good from the factory and, thus, doesn't require much. Does this sound right? Am I getting a proper set-up from someone who claims this? If not, is the setup something I can fiddle (successfully) with after watching a few youtube videos and doing some reading? or am I being naive here?

The other consideration is that there seem to be a limited number of makes that are available in Canada. For the 2-300 range I can get a:
-Gretch New Yorker, G9300 (solid top) for 200
-Gretch New Yorker G9310 or G9320 (all solid mahogany) for 220 and 230ish
-Ephiphone, MM-30ASGH (solid top) for 200
-Washburn M1S (solid top) for 180
-Ibanez 1511S (solid top) for 163
-Fender FM-53S (all solid?? or is it an F style) for 299 (I think the price of this one is a bit of a stretch)

The following are available but are laminate so I have pretty much eliminated them:
-Fender, FM-52E A (laminate? solid?) for 269 (probably a laminate and the higher cost is because it has a pick up)
-Beaver Creek (laminate) for 170ish
-Fender starter kit (laminate) for 200
-Washburn M1K kit (laminate) for 189

I have sensitive ears, especially to the tinny sound and I don't want to end up purchasing a mando that I wont be able to tolerate the sound of. Do any of the above stand out to anyone as being deeper toned? or at least the least tinny? Any best bets on the above list? Or does anyone know of anything under $300 in Canada that I haven't hunted down yet? And I KNOW I should get the best one possible--I have 4 kids learning instruments right now (read: $$$$)--I can only do 300 for now and hope to upgrade in the months or years to come. That said, I don't want to get turned off by junk. Its a bit of a catch-22.

Thanks again! I grabbed a rental today at a good deal so that I can play around until I can find something, which will hopefully be soon!

[Mike Bunting]

I spoke with my friend today and he has some instruments that should be right what you are looking for. He says that sipping would be around $30. He is Rod West at http://www.acousticmusicshop.com/stringed_instruments. They do all the set up work etc on my instruments, are extremely fair and honest. I have no problems at all in recommending the shop.
P.s. Rod does a full set up before they go out

[Gottliver]

In that price range you will need a setup. Factor at least $100 for that from a luthier, avoid a music store tech. I bought a kentucky km 150 in Montreal for $250 and had it setup for $100. Couldnt be happier. The Gretsch 9310 all mahogany mandos sound good and play well once setup. Any Fender dealer can get you one.

[Mike Bunting]

[QUOTE=Raggle Taggle;
Or, you could phone a reasonable close reputable store that specializes in acoustic instruments such as Mhyres Music in Edmonton, and have them ship to you via Parcel Post.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if Byron has any mandos on that price range.

[Mike Bunting]

[QUOTE=Raggle Taggle;
Or, you could phone a reasonable close reputable store that specializes in acoustic instruments such as Mhyres Music in Edmonton, and have them ship to you via Parcel Post.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if Byron has any mandos on that price range.

[Kerry Krishna]

Celena, I am here in PG. If there is anything I can do for you please let me know. I am also the only mandolin teacher that I know of here, but am currently not teaching.

At $300, I can't see you getting anything that won't offend your ears in the 'tinny' department. PM me for my phone number. If nothing else, we can sit down for a coffee, as there are hardly any mando players up here. I'll buy! Cafe Voltair maybe?

[Celena]

Thanks everyone for your help. You have given me some great leads to check out. I will be in the Vancouver area at the end of June so is anyone knows of any deals down that way, keep me in mind and let me know!

Mike, I checked out your link and I see that that shop sells a couple of Kentucky mandos. That surprises me as before now I have not seen any on any Canadian dealer sites yet. Thanks for the info.

Kerry, will be in touch sometime after summer comes...busy time with end of school year (I am a teacher). Thanks!!

You guys are awesome! Talk to you soon

[bmac]

If you are trying to avoid set up costs, your informants are wrong.... Factory set ups are usually non-existant in instruments in that price range.... Yes, the instrument is "playable" but very uncomfortable, intonation is normally terrible, and action is painfully high. these are facts in instruments in your price range. Setups are fine tuning of a mando before it is sold to you and mandos in their original unopened box are rarely set up after factory... so you have to pay to have it done. Buying from a dealer who actually sets up their instruments before selling it to you is important, but they do not do that for free. It takes the technician roughly an hour to do a set up. Maybe more, maybe less, but the set up is terribly important. I know this from painful experience, and I really mean "painful".

If you are comfortable with basic tools sand paper, files, and reading instructions carefully, you likely can do the set up yourself. Frets.com will give you step, by step instructions on how to make the adjustments and there are other sites which exlpain set ups of stringed instruments as well. A really good Idea to learn how to do this.

That is why you may want to consider a used mandolin. If owned by a musician it normally will have been set up at some point so it normally will be in decent playing condition. Any new instrument in your price range drops roughly a third of its value the moment it is sold to you. Sorry... That is just a fact of life. So a used mando in decent condition (which has had a set up) is often a much better value than a new one.

You have listed beginner mandolins and perhaps any one of them will suit your needs... But set up is the key to any instrument being playable and sounding decent. You sound like you have a good attitude and don't expect miracles. That is good and in time you will find something which exactly fits your needs... You have to start somewhere and you are motivated. That's the most important thing.

[Mike Bunting]

If you are trying to avoid set up costs, your informants are wrong.... Factory set ups are usually non-existant in instruments in that price range.... Yes, the instrument is "playable" but very uncomfortable, intonation is normally terrible, and action is painfully high. these are facts in instruments in your price range. Setups are fine tuning of a mando before it is sold to you and mandos in their original unopened box are rarely set up after factory... so you have to pay to have it done. Buying from a dealer who actually sets up their instruments before selling it to you is important, but they do not do that for free. It takes the technician roughly an hour to do a set up. Maybe more, maybe less, but the set up is terribly important. I know this from painful experience, and I really mean "painful".

If you are comfortable with basic tools sand paper, files, and reading instructions carefully, you likely can do the set up yourself. Frets.com will give you step, by step instructions on how to make the adjustments and there are other sites which exlpain set ups of stringed instruments as well. A really good Idea to learn how to do this.

That is why you may want to consider a used mandolin. If owned by a musician it normally will have been set up at some point so it normally will be in decent playing condition. Any new instrument in your price range drops roughly a third of its value the moment it is sold to you. Sorry... That is just a fact of life. So a used mando in decent condition (which has had a set up) is often a much better value than a new one.

You have listed beginner mandolins and perhaps any one of them will suit your needs... But set up is the key to any instrument being playable and sounding decent. You sound like you have a good attitude and don't expect miracles. That is good and in time you will find something which exactly fits your needs... You have to start somewhere and you are motivated. That's the most important thing.

Nonsense, I know for a fact that the people at the link I posted automatically set up every mandolin they sell as well as restring them with J74's because they like people to come back to their store to upgrade. They also give a good price for your old mando against the cost of the new one. I always test the instruments that are for sale and they are all nicely set up right there hanging on the wall. They don't sell high end mandos either, they stock Kentucky, The Loar and J Bovier instruments.
You must have gone to a really crappy dealer.

[mandolirius]

If you are trying to avoid set up costs, your informants are wrong.... Factory set ups are usually non-existant in instruments in that price range.... Yes, the instrument is "playable" but very uncomfortable, intonation is normally terrible, and action is painfully high. these are facts in instruments in your price range.

That's more of an opinion than a fact. By that I mean it's not necessarily true in every case. I've had a number of students who've purchased inexpensive mandolins that weren't horrible to play by any means. I think there can be a certain amount of snobbery about setups that almost suggests you absolutely need one, no matter what. Even if it does need some tweaking, there's no guarantee that frets will need to be filed or anything else that drastic. There was a bit of fear-mongering in the post I quoted, imho.

[bmac]

My snobery is based on blistered fingertips and instruments so painful that that they are virtually worthless as instruments. I guess I am a snob because I expect my instruments to play easily and sound good.

Your comments of set ups are based on dealers who do set up their instruments before selling. Mail order, or discount sellers, seldom do set up their instrument. You refer to legitimate brick and morter dealers who spend time setting them up. I have no argument with that.

[Rob Meldrum]

I'm pretty sure I emailed Celena a copy of my ebook last week... the odds of two Celenas from Canada getting a new mando at the same time are pretty low. My ebook on how to set up a mandolin is free to all mandolincafe members. Just email me your request with mandolin in the subject line (makes it easier for me to search and reply quickly) at rob.meldrum@gmail.com.

Good luck with your mando search!

[Mike Bunting]

My snobery is based on blistered fingertips and instruments so painful that that they are virtually worthless as instruments. I guess I am a snob because I expect my instruments to play easily and sound good.

Your comments of set ups are based on dealers who do set up their instruments before selling. Mail order, or discount sellers, seldom do set up their instrument. You refer to legitimate brick and morter dealers who spend time setting them up. I have no argument with that.

But you made a blanket statement that included my link to a brick and mortAr store who only do mail order if requested.
And why would you play anything long enough to get blisters and how many crappy instruments did you go through anyhow?

[Folkmusician.com]

Hi Celena,

I was just about to reply to your email. I ship a lot of mandolins to Canada. Here is the basic rundown...

It is almost always best to use the US Postal service which will hand it off to Canada Post.

Actual postage cost (not including insurance), will run from $35+ for a mandolin without a case shipped via Priority mail.
Express mail would be $50+

A mandolin in a case would be around $45 via Priority Mail and $70 via express. These are the only two methods available now via USPS.

The type/amount of packaging will change the cost. These prices are about the minimum and include an online discount (it costs more to go to the counter to ship).

Insurance is based on cost.

--------------------------
UPS, is reasonable as far as shipping costs, but they charge a very large brokerage fee (USPS has no brokerage fee). The brokerage fee is based on the value of the package. The fee is waived for air packages. It is almost always cheaper to use the Postal service.


UPS Brokerage fees:

$100.01 to $200.00
$29.00

$200.01 to $350.00
$47.00

$350.01 to $500.00
$52.75

$500.01 to $750.00
$59.95

$750.01 to $1,000.00
$67.10

$1,000.01 to $1,250.00
$74.25

$1,250.01 to $1,600.00
$78.95

$1,600.01 to $5,000.00
$83.30


UPS packages will go right through customs without delay. Postal packages may see delays. Express mail is preferable to Priority in my experiences.


In addition to shipping costs, you will pay your local sales tax rate, and sometimes a duty charge (not always).

[Stephen Porter]

Robert--thanks for the detailed info.

I recently had to confront this issue when I was considering buying a used mandolin from a private party living in Canada. He was willing to pay for shipping (and there was some discussion about return shipping also). His quote from Canada Post was about $75 and USP was well north of $200.00. The deal-killer in this case was I was told that Canada Post had a $1,000 limit on insurance, and the mandolin in question had a value of $1,800-2,000. I simply wasn't willing to risk shipping it under-insured.

My questions are: is it true that Canada Post has an arbitrary limit of $1K--at least for a mandolin? Secondly, what are the risks of getting hung up in customs and having a shipment significantly delayed and/or lost? Or running into hidden fees and charges?

TIA.

STP