Tone Gard

[jazzjune18]

I have seen countless people rant and rave about the tonegards here on the forum. But I would love to see a video or hear an audio clip. Anyone have anything out there??"

[MikeEdgerton]

Actually you can do a test yourself without one to find out what it does. Stand in a corner and hold your mandolin back against you stomach and play. Now turn slightly and hold the mandolin out away from your body machine gun style and play into the corner. The back is now free to vibrate. That is what your mandolin will sound like with a tonegard. The Tonegard let's the back of the mandolin vibrate freely without having to contort your playing style.

[jazzjune18]

Thanks Mike. I will try it out !

Mark

[neil argonaut]

To be honest, also, a video wouldn't be great for making the effect clear, as the main effect is on the volume, and it's hard to tell on youtube how loud or quiet something is.

[bmac]

If a tonegard is so effective why isn't one built into mandolins by any manufacturer that I know of? And I see very few professional players using one. I don't have one and have never used one but if as effective as people suggest, a tone guard ought to be found on most store bought mandolins, but they are not. My own feeling is that it looks kind of silly when in use and I would not use one for that reason, even if it does help in volume.

But I tend to be a bit cynical about any expensive aftermarket add-ons like expensive bridges and tailpieces to replace perfectly adequate original equipment.

[mandrian]

I would have to disagree that the top players don't use it. What about Grisman, Marshall, Thile and Statman. I've seen them and they all use it.

Regards

[MikeEdgerton]

...I don't have one and have never used one...

To be honest, that statement alone is enough to discount your concern. Try one, if you don't like it then at least you can offer a valid recommendation. I'm generally a skeptic about every new geegaw that comes out. I don't buy into new pick material, string styles, bridge styles, machines that buzz the top, none of it. I have to be shown. I have tonegards on all my mandolins because they do work.

[Tobin]

If a tonegard is so effective why isn't one built into mandolins by any manufacturer that I know of?

That's a good question, as I think it would be a nice improvement. But the answer probably is as simple as it not being traditional. Manufacturers tend to make their money on reproducing traditional styles with very little deviation. Since the ToneGard is available as an aftermarket add-on, it's best to let the customer decide whether he wants to use one or not, rather than locking it into the design of the mandolin.

And I see very few professional players using one.

If you're not seeing it, then I'd consider that a ringing endorsement of the design being easily hidden. But the fact is, according to their website, many of the premier mandolin players use them. Most of my mandolin heroes are on that list, so it does seem that there's something they get out of it.

That said, I don't actually own one yet. I finally pulled the trigger on one this morning. I've been frustrated by the tone and lack of sustain/volume in my mandolin lately, and have been performing a rather awkward hold to compensate. Just holding my mandolin differently makes a huge difference, but I'd like to get that sound without the awkward posture. I'm hoping the ToneGard will live up to its reputation and solve my problem. We shall see!

[neil argonaut]

But I tend to be a bit cynical about any expensive aftermarket add-ons

There's many people here playing mandolins that cost 4 figure sums (or more!) and the vast majority are probably playing something that cost more than $200 so something that impacts the sound and volume massively for $75 isn't excessively expensive if it does what it promises, which I, and many others do. Plenty of times people have commented on the volume I get from the instrument before noticing the tone gard, whereas this never happened before.

[AlanN]

Yep, loads of name pickers use it.

[SternART]

And I see very few professional players using one.

That is just WRONG !!! You should get out more.......or do better research
before making statements like that.

Most of the top tier professional players that I'm aware of use them.
In fact some have had their own custom designs made. David Grisman,
for example, has a Dog shape in his, that he proudly holds up & displays to
the audience at the end of his performances.

[bmac]

Neil:
Your figure of $75 for a tone gard is interesting. I had no idea they were that expensive. My two best sounding (and probably loudest) mandolins are both mid-1930s Strad-O-Lins. One cost me a little over $100 and the other roughly $60 plus some work time repairing them. And, by the way I have played them against Webers and they stood up well volume-wise and tone-wise. My point is that $75 may take you one step up and allow one to buy a little better sounding instrument. $300 will buy some pretty interesting used instruments if you buy on eBay or Craigs list here in the USA. There is always some risk but I have been quite lucky in my purchases.

[neil argonaut]

Neil:
Your figure of $75 for a tone gard is interesting. I had no idea they were that expensive. My two best sounding (and probably loudest) mandolins are both mid-1930s Strad-O-Lins. One cost me a little over $100 and the other roughly $60 plus some work time repairing them. And, by the way I have played them against Webers and they stood up well volume-wise and tone-wise. My point is that $75 may take you one step up and allow one to buy a little better sounding instrument. $300 will buy some pretty interesting used instruments if you buy on eBay or Craigs list here in the USA. There is always some risk but I have been quite lucky in my purchases.

Well in your case it looks like you've either been very lucky, or you have a fine eye for a good instrument - I'm betting most people here will have spent significantly more than $100 if they've got something that stands up well to a weber.
However, generally, I tend to be of the opinion that most folk will get a better sound with more volume with a $400 mandolin and tonegard, than a $475 mandolin, or indeed $1000 plus tonegard rather than $1075. Similarly, I think money spent on a good set up is probably better spent than on getting a slightly more expensive mandolin. And some days when playing outside in a warm sun, or anywhere else suitably warm, I'd almost pay the $75 just for that bit of airspace between mandolin and tshirt

Btw, the price was directly from his website.

[mtucker]

There's a big distinction here that people seem to miss the connection to...

If you sit to play and/ or practice, which is the position that most find themselves in 99% of the time...then... not so much, assuming the mandolin is resting in the proper position. But, if you stand and perform frequently by solo or by group, the guard is the only way to travel That's clearly why the professional players, or anyone who performs for that matter, use them. It keeps the back off the bod!

[neil argonaut]

There's a big distinction here that people seem to miss the connection to...

If you sit to play and/ or practice, which is the position that most find themselves in 99% of the time...then... not so much, assuming the mandolin is resting in the proper position. But, if you stand and perform frequently by solo or by group, the guard is the only way to travel That's clearly why the professional players, or anyone who performs for that matter, use them. It keeps the back off the bod!

Personally I find I tended to sit with it against my body too, but maybe I was holding it incorrectly, and yes, it's true what you say, it makes a lot more sense for standing players.

[PJ Doland]

Notice that nobody here has chimed in to say "I tried one and didn't like it." All the skepticism is from people who haven't used them or are too price-sensitive to spring for one.

These things are like chinrests on violins (which did not exist when Antonio Stradivari was building violins). It's an obvious improvement, which is why almost everyone uses them.

[neil argonaut]

Notice that nobody here has chimed in to say "I tried one and didn't like it." All the skepticism is from people who haven't used them or are price-sensitive to spring for one.

That's what made me take the leap after hours of trawling through discussion threads on it - not many folk regret it.
Plus there's not many accessories that you can so easily assess the effects of before buying, by holding the mandolin away from you as mentioned.

[MikeEdgerton]

I use one on my $50.00 Strad-O-Lin as well as my Gibson F5G. Cost has nothing to do with it. Now, if you play without muffling the back against your belly then you don't need a Tonegard. The simple little test detailed above will tell you if you can hear a difference. If you don't like the difference or if you can hold that mandolin out comfortably and play then have at it, but if you've never even tried you don't what you're missing.

[foldedpath]

A ToneGard also makes a convenient mounting point for clip-on mics that mount with an alligator clip like the Audio Technica ATM350 and Pro 35, or the K&K Silver Bullet. I'm not sure I'd get one just for that application if I didn't notice the tone enhancement effect (which I do, although it's subtle), since there are other mics like the DPA 4099 that are "self mounting." But it's a nice little extra benefit if you have a ToneGard anyway.

[FLATROCK HILL]

If a tonegard is so effective why isn't one built into mandolins by any manufacturer that I know of?

I'm glad my tonegard isn't 'built into' anything. Unlike a pickguard/finger-rest or an arm-rest, my tonegard can be moved from one mandolin to another in seconds. The price of one tonegard divided by five mandolins is pretty reasonable.

[Folkmusician.com]

The tonal difference between a mandolin laying up against your body and one isolated is pretty significant in my opinion. It suddenly opens up and has new overtones. I also have to agree with Neil.... A mandolin with a tone guard will almost always sound better than spending an extra $75 on a better mandolin and at the high-end of mandolins it can add "thousands of dollars" worth of tone.

And as Mike points out, it is one of the few things you can test yourself without buying one.

[mandolirius]

I don't use one, but I'm skinny and tend to point the mandolin out when I play, so much so that the peghead is nearly pointing at the audience. But some of my beefier buddies who hold their mandolins against their bodies when they play get amazing results. I'd use one if I needed it.

[Mike Snyder]

Not a Tony P product. Stainless round stock. Made a believer out of me.

[fatt-dad]

I love my tone gard. I'm was a skeptic too. Not prone to frills either.

f-d

p.s., to add, there's a classical performer (Brandt) that has a mandolin with two backs, essentially a wooden tone gard (the second back has a sound port to allow the true back to properly resonate. There are interesting acoustics that engage the back wood. The tone gard does address that. So does that crazy double-back mandolin.

[Clockwork John]

I'm not gonna dog on the tonegard, but I don't think I need one. I don't know if it's how I hold my mando, or how I set it up, or how I pick it, but I play loud... Last celtic session I went to, there was another player there with a '96 F5V MM (if I remember correctly), and he was digging out his tonegard after the first tune, and swapping picks after the second, so he could hear himself over me... At the end of the night, I asked to look at his mando, and he was glad, because he wanted to look at mine... because he'd never seen a Kentucky KM-140s that could out-bark his Gibson.