New tool for the shop- a snowflake

[j. condino]

For a mandolin builder, any of the above saws work fine. I also build double basses these days, so I need to be able to get a 15" resaw cut as a minimum- for each half of a back. The 36" and larger saws are giant 9' tall beasts. The cool thing about the 30" snowflake, aside form the obvious style, is that it is very compact yet still weighs almost 2700 lbs, cuts 16", and will fit under a 7' ceiling.

Marty- you can fit almost any machinery through 30" doors; you just have to take it apart first.

I'd still like to have that 20" that Dale has!

j.
www.condino.com

[sunburst]

30" Yates snowflake that I've been lusting after more than a Loar signed F5:

Buy the saw, and you can make all the Loar signed F5's you want!
Man, these pictures make me think about painting mine... (naah...)

[Keith Newell]

Being a machinist an working with machinery all my life I understand completely. Some of the best equipment still used in shops was made in the early 40's. Rock solid, accurate, rebuildable, rigid and damn heavy for sure.
Keith

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Keith - "Rock solid, accurate, rebuildable, rigid and damn heavy for sure." Absolutely Keith, & built to last decades as well.
When i see pieces of equipment like this,it reminds me of the build quality of the Victorian Steam engines built well over 150 years ago & still running as smoothly as the day they were installed - tools to be treasured indeed,
Ivan
http://youtu.be/SVcDAA-RFhs

[Keith Newell]

I just got chills

[Tony Francis]

That letter is gold, John!

Very cool saw indeed. A couple years back I saw John's saw here and ever since had been seeking something of that vintage out. I finally found one, and am in the process of restoring it.



Congrats on the new saw, Dale!

[Nevin]

That is some saw, congrats. I think a headstock inlay patterned after the snowflake would be great.

[Timbofood]

Tony, that's a really dandy find! Where did you find that one?

[sunburst]

Re: the flywheel effect of the massive wheels on large bandsaws.

Behind the cast iron doors of my saw (displaying their patina, appropriate for their age...)

...is found this solid iron (or steel) lower wheel. I don't know what it weighs, but imagine a "free weight" this size.


The guard on this saw (not as cool looking as a snowflake, but still rather interesting) only partially conceals...


...the top wheel. This one was an option back in 1927, it's made by Carter, and it has a "quick change tire". That means, in order to change the tire, you un-bolt the entire rim of the wheel with it's vulcanized rubber tire and bolt on a new one. (Carter still makes them, they're well over $200, and I decided to re-crown the tire I have rather than replace it!)

[sunburst]

Once all that spinning mass is up to speed, it wants to keep spinning! Sometimes, however I want it to stop spinning, and in a hurry(!) so, having been my own bicycle mechanic, back in the day, I installed a bicycle brake.


I put the handle that operates it right next to the on-off switch so I can hit the switch and grab the brake quickly if I need the saw to stop quickly for any reason. Here's the bicycle brake caliper;


You may notice that, unlike some pictured around here, my saw has been in the business of making dust... and plenty of it.

One of the great things about large bandsaws is the clearance. Suppose I want to saw out a 5 string banjo peghead, I can cut to either side of the blade!

[sunburst]

I usually have my saw "strung up" with a 1/4" blade, but i have blades ranging from 1/8" (custom made) to 3/4". It can accommodate a 1 1/2" blade, but I don't need those. Depending on the set up and blade, the same saw can do anything from this:

...to this.

[Tony Francis]

John, Very cool saw and great pictures - that brake is a great idea. Try again on the upper Carter wheel though - their website states "starting at $1,400.00" USD. What motor do you have running it?

Tim, I found my saw in someones garden right here in New Zealand. It's a Crescent 20" machine. Apparently the lower cast iron flyweel they have is quite rare, a gentleman in the US wanted to purchase it. Its a cool saw, but it has nothing on the Snowflake saws such as you see here.

[Sola]

Beautiful saw Dale (and John and Tony)! Congratulations. These propelled me over to Craigslist to see what was available in my area. Here's a wonderful looking old 36" listed in Barre, MA. Seller says all offers considered. If only I had the room! (NFI)

http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/tls/3730685737.html

[sunburst]

Try again on the upper Carter wheel though - their website states "starting at $1,400.00" USD. What motor do you have running it?

The $1400.00 is the starting point for the whole wheel, not just the tire. When I called Carter about a price for a replacement tire, the person on the phone said "are you sitting down?" before informing me it was well over $200.
I got the saw with a 5hp 3 phase motor, but since I don't have 3 phase power (and don't want to run a converter) I replaced it with a 2 ph single phase TEFC motor. That's plenty of power for anything I do with the saw, it only requires a 20 amp circuit, and besides, if I need to do any resawing more serious than 2hp will handle, I do that with my Woodmizer sawmill.

[Rob Grant]

FWIW: I couldn't seem to get an original set of tyres for my 'ol Atlas bandsaw, so I just contact cemented a strip of thick, old fashion rubber linoleum to the wheel surface. The stuff is cheap as chips, works great and doesn't seem to wear or parish like the original rubber tyres. The same material has been on the machine for at least the last eight years and still does the job.

[Dale Ludewig]

Sola, that's an interesting looking saw. Does that lower wheel go below floor level?

FWIW, the snowflake's motor goes right into the lower wheel. No pulleys. John, who'd you get to weld up a 1/8" blade that length?

[sunburst]

I can't remember, Dale. I've tried to remember who made the 1/8" blades but so far I can't. I still have one unused one (I had to get at least three in order for them to weld them for me) so I haven't had to do the research to find them again. This may be a source, though: http://sawblade.com/

I'm not sure what knocked this one off of the wheel, but it was too dull to keep using anyway, so no great loss. I was thankful for the guards and the brake on the saw!

[Rob Grant]

I buy 100 metre rolls of blade here in Oz and silver braze the joint with a homemade jig. I've made up dozens of "custom" length blades this way without problems. A good silver braze will often outlive a brittle weld join. The last roll I purchased worked out at around 1 dollar per metre. I don't know what you all pay up there in the "Old Country," but I know a store bought blade around these parts can cost up to thirty dollars a pop and they are often inferior rubbish.

[Sola]

Sure looks like it from the photos, Dale. It is very similar to one appearing in a vintage ad from the late 1800's on eBay. The lower wheel appears to go below floor level on that unit as well.

BTW, while I have the chance, I'd like to thank you all for generously sharing your expertise. I have been following the discussions for some time now and am profoundly grateful. Looking forward to starting my first A-style soon.

-Jack

[sunburst]

Bob, among the advantages of a large bandsaw is blade life. When the blade is long enough to go around two 20" to 36" wheels, it goes around the machine fewer times to do the same amount of cutting as a smaller saw, and furthermore, the blades don't have to bend as much to go around the wheels. So, the bigger the saw, the fewer times the blade bends around the wheels, and the less it has to bend to go around the wheels. Less flexing, less fatigue, longer blade life. I have not broken a blade in my 30" saw since I've had it. I re-sharpen my larger blades and use them a long time. (It did throw that 1/8" blade off of the wheels though.)
(BTW, a well done, properly annealed weld is not brittle.)

[Rob Grant]

John wrote: "BTW, a well done, properly annealed weld is not brittle."

True words John, but the problem is "properly" annealing a weld on a long thin high carbon steel blade like that used on a bandsaw. Carbon steel over .7% needs, literally, heat treatment that involves slow cooling from the initial welding/annealing temp. Locally, most blade makers just spot the joint and sell you the blade. I'm no expert on annealing HC steel, but it seems you'd have to heat and slowly cool the whole blade to "properly" anneal a weld and this would probably soften the cutting teeth too. Perhaps someone could set me straight on this.

[j. condino]

I counted out this week that I have been outsourcing my larger re-saw work to someone else, usually with a low level of satisfaction, since 1985. After a several year search, today I just bought a 1942 Yates 30" snowflake. I've been lusting after it waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy more than a Loar signed F5; they are about 10x more rare. I sure hope this doesn't mean I have to start making banjos now....

While it will be a great and necessary addition for my own work, my plan is to put it to work and offer a small scale custom resaw service for other people with it. Just gotta' get all 2700 lbs of cast iron saw moved into my place...


j.
www.condino.com

[pfox14]

Now that's a bandsaw.

[sunburst]

I sure hope this doesn't mean I have to start making banjos now....

It's imperative! No way you can have that capacity and not use it to make banjos!
Cool saw! I'm almost envious myself!

[Dale Ludewig]

James, quite the find! Are you going to hire someone with a forklift to get that into your shop? Congrats.